Suggestion: Spellbound Honcho's Headgear at 5555 keys

Price Suggestion

~3150 keys

spellbnd

55 votes up

13 votes down

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This suggestion was closed Mon, 16 Dec 24 10:48:45 +0000 by Mindacos.

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Comments

Spellbound Honcho

This was probably the most insane unusual I've ever/will ever own. I had been offered 4444 from frosty (honcho collector) and an upgrade to a bftc from rainy but ARoyalPain is royally insane.

Item 1:

https://backpack.tf/item/2039115914

Sale 1:

https://backpack.tf/profiles/76561198139627699#!/compare/1728518400/1728604800

https://backpack.tf/profiles/76561198259528152#!/compare/1728518400/1728604800

(The keys are not showing up on Pain's end, so I'm linking this image to it and requesting That He post the screenshot on his end, as the plug-in that clumps keys is not working for me.)

Trade going through in Firepowered:

https://imgur.com/a/0Qw6VVg

Video of trade:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3rs0iJfEyA

1818 Keys

Golden Frying Pan

The current Price of the Golden Frying pan as of 10/11/24 is 3625–3850 keys (in-date) so for this trade it had been used as 3737.5 (rounding to 3737)

3737.5+1818= 5555.5

Taking 5555

Proof of the Trade

https://imgur.com/a/WYPNxe2

might be worth noting that this is the double-spelled version with the best possible spells, and the other one is semi-active where it moved roughly 10 months ago. absolutely crazy sale but i doubt the other one would get this much

yeah, that will most likely be an issue for the suggestion.

not really there are multiple examples of the spelled variants being priced in a price suggestion with others existing that are nonspelled

Yeah but in this case it's more about the plausibility of the none spelled selling for 5500 keys as well and I think we both can be that honest and see that a single class spellbound soldier hat won't sell for almost 10,000$ in the current market unless its spelled, and even then it's an insane sale. Also the recent movement of the none spelled indicates that there is a good chance of it reselling within reasonable time. Suggestions based on spells usually only get accepted if the other versions have been in dead accounts/with collectors for years.

But again, mods will decide.

I'd have to disagree to an extent, this is comparable to the spellbound warpig that had been priced solely off of the double-spelled one, where 5 total existed, 4 of which being nonspelled (https://backpack.tf/suggestion/6253a42838d091497c796ec2) which of course had its own situation but was still accepted as the suggested price for the item overall. (Had only been rescinded then reaccepted due to the chargeback thing but had overall still been accepted with the majority of owners still being online till today.)

Warpig https://backpack.tf/suggestion/6253a42838d091497c796ec2

Knifestorm Kabuto - https://backpack.tf/suggestion/6610d4abd4be17ef6906fff9 same deal but much less likely, albeit 3 total exist

S13th Rack - https://backpack.tf/suggestion/641ba24519fa55c0220f24db more in existence.

And these are only a few that I thought of now. I agree though I'd like to hear what the mods say as it has been done multiple times in the past for similar hats.

All the items you pointed out have no recorded recent movement on backpack though besides the spelled one, no recent sales in years. I can point out just as many suggestions that got declined because of spells but it really does not matter in the end, mods will rule on it.

Some recent examples I could quickly think of:

https://backpack.tf/suggestion/665107621fabf0e6d10a48e9

https://backpack.tf/suggestion/6651075e937b1814b2077190

https://backpack.tf/suggestion/66322581f0e6e526880264e4

https://backpack.tf/suggestion/66afaeb1f26a060caa09872b <-- not closed yet but same situation with mod comment

MODS really need to write sth in the actual suggestion rules about this. I asked them before to finally define CLEAR rules on when spelled sales can be used and when not, got ignored so far. But yeah, they will decide and depending on which mod looks into it it will eithe be ruled as ok or not apparently.

MODS CAN YOU PLEASE FINALLY DEFINE CLEAR SPELLED SALE RULES OR AT LEAST GUIDELINES ON THE ACTUAL RULES FOR PRICE SUGGESTIONS AND NOT ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS

(if that is not possible at least define that it's ruled on a case by case basis so I don't have to argue on this anymore every time)

What doesn’t make sense is how the pullover hadn’t been accepted but the warpig had been accepted, where imo I feel like the war pigs would have a higher chance at being sold than the pullover in any circumstance. It seems inconsistent.

holy moly..

Bummer I couldn't snag it, but I'm glad its going to someone with no plans of selling

be grateful. this the type of sale where he regrets it in 3-12 months and dumps it lol

Absolutely nuts. I do hope that FrostyBoiGrim ends up with it one day!

something burning pampered pyro moment

When knowing there is 1 other that is 𝗻𝗼𝘁 spelled that exists and this is the double-spelled version that sold, a price suggestion for this god-tier spelled spellbound seems rather unfeasible to me, cause then that one non-spelled version also will get tagged value of 5555 keys technically speaking. If it was 1 of 1 on the other hand, it'd be well more justifiable. In my opinion, I don't see this suggestion going through, sorry lad.

I brought up several examples in my conversation with heid, and we both came to realize that there are examples of spelled hats being accepted and declined for hat prices. So, we brought it up to the bp mods and they’re discussing it because even a rule about exactly this has never been created, nor significantly followed in the past. (See prime examples via spellbound warpig and planets pullover, both had been in the exact same position being a spelled version of a hat, with several others existing in active inventories, with the spellbound being accepted and the pullover declined). And those were only one example where I listed (and there does exist) several more that have either been accepted or declined.

I know it may seem like a spaghetti sorta situation as I dont know how or if this may be complicated to implement, but htg idk why there hasn't been some sort of like "pseudo-pricing" system added, where kinda like how strange unusuals work and how they have their own separate price vs the non-strange version, or how killstreaks can alter prices of liquidated items (i.e. australiums).

They should really add something where spelled items are also separate from the non-spelled somehow. That and/or they act like parts and extend value of items (depending on the item they are applied to) per spell. Like just for example: Unique Antlers 1.66 ref (Standard spell: Voices from Below. 3 keys) (Footsteps spell: Rotten Orange Footprints. 8.5 keys) (this is just as random example)

Then again on the contrary, I am unsure how much of a mess this would be and the mods can either agree or disagree with this sort of system as it may be complicated to pull off or just dont understand where im going at. Spells are definitely only a niche addition to items, so i can understand why not much was done about them on this website.

tbh it might just because the sheer number of it too, like imagine just a single type of unique item that has multiple variants and combinations of spells, I see why it would be unrealistic, but I'm really unsure if there is an outcome that would represent both sides of the argument, as well as properly represent the way bp has done it in the past (which has been opposite from itself multiple times)

If the outcome also ends up being that the suggestion does not go through, it sets a precedent, and other hats that have been suggested and accepted with spelled variants need to be overturned.

>it sets a precedent, and other hats that have been suggested and accepted with spelled variants need to be overturned.

the difference is that for those that have been accepted, it's a situation where the non-spelled versions haven't hit the market or traded hands in years,

I'd have to recheck the few unus but I know there have been some that have had nonspelled that have traded within a year or two timespan, this other nonspelled honcho had moved nearly a year ago, and by the time the suggestion is accepted it would already be a year as sometimes this takes 2-4 months

a double spelled spellbound... hot.. hope this gets accepted

This particular case is tricky, since the non-spelled Honcho's has only moved once since the previous suggestion:

200 Keys, 6 Years ago

https://backpack.tf/profiles/76561198061376237#!/compare/1550448000/1550534400

https://backpack.tf/profiles/76561198153818314#!/compare/1550275200/1550534400

Untraceable, also traded with a Spellbound Tyrannus (possibly for cash, but this is just a theory)

https://backpack.tf/profiles/76561198153818314#!/compare/1701302400/1701388800

https://backpack.tf/profiles/76561198021013907#!/compare/1701302400/1701388800

Having looked at previous suggestions, however: it's been very clear that the Spelled Honcho's has been selling above the non-spelled one, which has failed to have a traceable sale since 6 years ago: https://backpack.tf/suggestion/65016647d1dee9d8d60a833c

In this suggestion, the spelled Honcho's sold for ~2900 while non-spelled was being actively sold for 2500. This is proof enough that the spells clearly add value here.

With the current owner being an active trader, and there being clear proof that the spells do add value in this case, this should remain outdated until the non-spelled one sells.

Hey min, i have to disagree to an extent, not whiteknighting my suggestion or anything, but I see things like the knifestorm kabuto

(https://backpack.tf/premium/search?item=Killer%27s%20Kabuto&quality=5&tradable=1&craftable=1&australium=-1&particle=43&killstreak_tier=0)

as well as the spell bound warpig

https://www.backpack.tf/premium/search?item=War%20Pig&quality=5&tradable=1&craftable=1&australium=-1&particle=74&killstreak_tier=0

being priced using the spelled variant for their suggestion, and considering the fact that more exist, some of which in very active traders bp's I see no reason why this wouldn't also move, to add, yes I know some haven't moved in a long time, but IMO, every trader has a price for their items whether listed or not, and using those hats as precedent for this suggestion is what I decided to do.

same with the arcana vvf where its 1:2 and 2 separate spells exist, both could move

https://backpack.tf/stats/Unusual/Virtual%20Viewfinder/Tradable/Craftable/73

I think using those as an example gives in to the idea that this suggestion should go through IMO.

On a separate note, I've suggested this on the bp discord but I defo think that maybe there should be some sign or something if a hat was priced using the spelled variant, idk how it would be done but I think its worthwhile to look into.

We are trying to streamline the process of handling spelled unusuals moving forward so that there's no longer any confusion remaining for this subject. Spelled sales can be used to update unusuals in specific circumstances, and it applies to all of your examples here:

- The Knifestorm Kabuto was previously priced with the spelled variant BEFORE the rule change went into effect, meaning it's valid to use spelled sales here since they are consistent with the previous suggestion. It's possible this will no longer be the case if the non-spelled ones sell and is updated with those in mind.

- The War Pig was accepted using the spelled variant BEFORE the rule change went into effect. Using the spelled variant will be fine for any future suggestions unless the non-spelled ones sell, and the War Pig is updated with those in mind. Exact same situation for the Kabuto.

- The Viewfinder only has spelled variants in existance, meaning there's no non-spelled variant to compare it to. If all of the existing versions of an unusual are spelled, spelled sales are fine to be used.

This Honcho's not only does not fall into any of these categories, but has demonstrable evidence that it's been unable to sell for the amount that the spelled variant has been selling for over the years. Had it been locked inside an inventory that is no longer interacting with TF2 at all this could be a different story, but that's clearly not the case here either.

We are working to have a more defined explanation of what is considered an "active" inventory and what isn't. But, the bare minimum requirement should be that the owner of the hat is not actively selling any hats themselves through classifieds/marketplace/etc.. The owner of the non-spelled Honcho's is actively selling hats themselves through classifieds.