Suggestion: Mann Co. Supply Crate Key at 4.33 ref

Price Suggestion

~64.56 ref

615 votes up

808 votes down

Related Suggestions

This suggestion was closed automatically because another price suggestion was accepted instead.

Comments can no longer be left on this suggestion.

Comments

http://backpack.tf/vote/id/515e3c864bd7b82a25000009

In case if his suggestion doesn't pass, I figured I'd post one that's more accurate.

http://tf2finance.com/keys/ - 4.33

If it lowers to 4.26 or 4.44, this suggestion is still accurate.

Common replies

--------------------------

1. You're just trying to increase the value of your BP < nope, don't care

2. You're buying and selling keys < yea, like 1 a week..if I need some change, I post for a lower price just to get some quick adds.

3. Stop raising the damn prices < We got so many idlers who buy keys, some sellers who want to make 1 - 2 scrap profit, most people don't want metal, and others like to sell keys on the steam market...and you wonder why they're rising.

4. You greedy jew. < Why don't you just spend some money on keys you F2P!

5. No proof downvote. < Proof is right here http://backpack.tf/vote/id/515e3c864bd7b82a25000009

6. Stop raising the key prices, downvote < your downvote is meaningless..create a real argument

Needs a range.

Oculus disproved almost all the proof in the other suggestion meaning all the "proof" in your suggestion is invalid.

Counter-proof from yesterdays suggestion.

"Scrap.tf buys at 4.22 and they still have people selling to them, these are screen caps I took since yesterday:

https://www.diigo.com/item/image/3tg11/4kg0

https://www.diigo.comh/item/image/3tg11/wm8x

https://www.diigo.com/item/image/3tg11/inow

Selling at 4.00 while this suggestion was active (Yesterdays suggestion)

https://www.diigo.com/item/image/3tg11/38g6

Selling at 4.33

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9807144#/34191154

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9815685 - 4/4/2013 https://www.diigo.com/item/image/3tg11/tq6h

I bought at 4.33 in about 5 mins.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9785439

I only started putting this together since yesterday, and I didn't put in that much effort. People still trade in the current range, the price therefore should not rise."

I think we have some good counter-proof right here.

scrap.tf sells those keys for 4.44

It just means some quicksold for 4.22

which equals 4.33 when you subtract the diff

That is entirely irrelevant. What is important is that it shows that people are willing to sell keys for 4.22, quicksell or not.

It does, like people sell unusuals worth 30 keys for 23 keys. The price is still 30 keys.

But the fact remains that some are willing to let the item go at a lower price

Finance @ 3.38 as of 8:57 of 4/5/13, Eastern Standard Time.

4.38*

"4. You greedy jew. < Why don't you just spend some money on keys you F2P!"

wow, why you hate jews?

..and why F2P?

No, they call me that any time I try to highball or lowball

I'm pretty sure you still need proof for your own suggestion. That's not proof, well, not yours, but it's not proof that it's straight up 4.3. You wanna open a different trade, get some different proof.

All my downvote.

"Why don't you just spend some money on keys you F2P!" Thats the most retarded sentence. Ever.

inb4 inb4 people

inb4 inb4 inb4 people

So posting another link that leads to another Key Suggestion would help?

I get way more flames when I just copy and paste the exact info, and I see key suggestions pass with little proof pass due to a recent suggestion with good proof but wrong price

:O I think I hear them coming as daylight strikes. "STOMP STOMP" as the Massive Angry Mob comes to see this suggestion....... Continue Amazing Story Brought to you by: Mr. Facial Man (-(-_-)-) "Ain't nobody dislikes Facial done by me"

Oh great, another key suggestion! I can see a massive angry mob coming from the horizon!

Let them come, I will prepare the canons!

Remember to light the fuse 5 seconds earlier, or they will get over our defenses!

Which is why the castle is burning.

You should have made a 5 ref suggestion

You make a 5 ref suggestion then

I don't have the balls. im a girl

well, i give you my balls, but make it 4

i can lend u my balls

$50 an hour

Reason TF2Finance is at 4.33: price manipulators with 100's of alts are trading keys to their alts for high prices that are still in the range to be counted.

Reason OP is full of highballs that sold: there are always idiots. I saw people buying keys for 5 refined, simply because they had lots of metal. My brother has sold keys for 4.66 when they were still 3.88

Reason there are buyers at 4.33: because they can do what I listed above.

Metal isn't even going down that much. It's price is going down because of keys going up. Why? Because everyone thinks the inverse is true, and they say key price in $ / metal = metal price in $.

Also, the vicious cycle. Everyone dismisses it as bullshit, but after seeing everything happen in first person, I know how it works. It is actually real.

Anyways, I want to stop this stupid crap as soon as possible.

Peace!

-RC

PS: OP owns 439 keys, might be manipulating through finance to raise price on here.

and what do I gain exactly? Already answered this comment before it was even posted ;)

You gain 439 scrap metal, and you just got the key plane closer to stalling. Do you even realize how low the sales are getting? Only a couple hundred key trades a day in a 4.5 million player community. That's nothing. Many people are stopping buying keys, demand is plummeting, and the key plane will stall soon.

Hmm, I sell like 1 key a week at most a week, if I get no buyers when I need to sell a key, I lower it by a scrap and get flooded with adds..

Traders stop buying keys with metal = Awesome!!!!

Stopping is good, the more is slows down, the better.

They'll either get rid of their metal, trade for something else, or key market will crash :)

Dude, if people are only going to buy keys with paypal, the number will shrink and shrink. There will be very little supply, and almost no demand. Metal is useful in the economy. I know. I am a metal only trader who hasn't touched any other currency yet. Anyways, I'm not trying to get into an internet fights. some wise words from Total Biscuit: It doesn't matter if you're right or wrong, if you take part in an internet fight, you're always the retard.

Okay, you can put your irrelevant theory here which is wrong. TF2F knows who got alts and is not counting the trades between them. You can't manipulate the price.

If you sell a single Key, the price will be counted. If you sell ~50 Keys at once, only the average price of a key in this trade will be counted

Btw. I can do this stuff, too:

Summary of the Keysuggestions.

Lowering the price:

- Persons love the suggester because he is doing a "good thing" for the economy.

- TF2 finance doesn't count as counterproof, although it is showing the average keyprice.

- 10 links of proof are enough to accept a keysuggestion. (Mind of voters)

- Persons who want that the price drops will upvote, no matter how bad the proof is.

- Admins/Mods will close the suggestion, because the proof is bad and nearly all upvotes are based on opinion.

Raising the price:

- Persons hate the suggester because he is doing a "bad thing" for the economy.

- TF2 finance doesn't count as proof, because it's definitely being manipulated by keysellers. (It isn't..)

- 60 links of proof are still not enough to accept the a keysuggestion. (Mind of voters)

- Persons who don't want that the price rises will downvote, no matter how good the proof is.

- Admins/Mods will accept the suggestion, because the proof is good and nearly all downvotes are based on opinion.

Other facts:

- backpack.tf is not manipulating the prices, the buyers who want that the price drops are manipulating it.

- If you downvote because the price is "too damn high", then you are manipulating the prices.

- Upvotes on lower prices do not count anymore, most of them are based on the opinion of mad people.

- Downvotes on higher prices do not count anymore, most of them are based on the opinion of mad people.

- The market won't crash till Valve does something with keys and/or metal.

- The keyprice will continue rising because most persons are paying the prices of OP-profitwhores.

- Admins/Mods look through all comments + the proof. They wouldn't accept a price which wasn't right.

- The price can't be {x} Ref if the average price is {x} + {y} Ref. (Y = 0.01 to 0.16 Ref)

- The amount of keys in the backpack of the suggester doesn't mean anything.

- While Keys are increasing in Refprice, Ref is decreasing in USD price. The argument that the suggester is doing the suggestion for his own benefit is irrelevant. Profit = 0.

- Persons who support a suggestion which is raising the keyprice will be downvoted, even if their arguments and/or lists of facts are good and true.

- Persons who are against a suggestion which is raising the keyprice will be upvoted, even if their arguments and/or lists of facts are bad and false.

- Votes are supposed to be made according to the market, not personal preference.

- What does the market tell about keys? Keys are rising. ||| What do people want? Keys dropping.

- If a downvoter doesn't have any (irrelevant) arguments left, he is accusing the suggester for making profit by normal trading and/or for having X keys in his BP.

This summary covers the past 100 suggestions.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Answer for the question: Why is Ref dropping?

Factor 1: Key-USD = Stable

Factor 2: Key-Ref = Unstable / Keys rising

Factor 3: Ref-USD = Unstable / Ref droping

If the price of Keys is stable between 1.25-1.40 USD, and the amount of Ref you need for a single Key is increasing, then the price of Ref in USD is decreasing.

The price of ref is dropping to round everything up. If it doesn't fall we would have a big hole where everybody could make a ton of profit with RL-money.

Just remember of the price of $0.45 per Ref. 4 x 0.45 = 1.80 USD. That's why the price of Ref in USD is decreasing.

If one of the factors above isn't stable the keyprice in Ref would be rising or dropping.

-Volpiii

"TF2F knows who got alts and is not counting the trades between them. You can't manipulate the price."

Really? How do they know who got alts? Could you prove it?

We already know, only two account can't do this.

"If you (one person) conducts this over 72 fixed periods, you will be excluded from the sample pool forever. "

But there are people who have 100+ alts (farmers). Even 20 could be enough...

"If you sell a single Key, the price will be counted. If you sell ~50 Keys at once, only the average price of a key in this trade will be counted"

Yep, we know it. But as I said above, still possible to manipulate with a high number of trades between alts.

That would be a lot of time just to get a few extra scrap of profit. Even if someone does succeed in manipulating the key price to make it raise one scrap on both ends of the range, they'll have a harder time buying at the former lower end because they just made keys go up, so they'll only be making 1 or 2 scrap profit either way. It would be a fruitless effort.

It's THIS again. The economy relies too much on PROOF. It can easily be falsified. By spreading trades over your alts, you can avoid the alt checking. All the other things are listed in my previous post.

Stop copypasting this bullshit.

will you sign my forehead

my god plz stop increasing keys

Anyone that still thinks that all these "price recordings" aren't affecting the price itself is delusional as fuck.

NO! STAHP IT! STOP BRINGING THEM UP! D:

Your post is so useless and irrelevant for the keysuggestions, so erm.. http://puu.sh/2ubZS

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9835522

many people wanna buy for 2.66

downvote

Well, I see the day coming, and I think it will before the end of this year, the keys will be at least 10 refined if this inflation doesnt stop.

I say 8 refined..10 starting in 2014

Oh, ONLY 8 refined? Well, thats acceptable :) (not)

You own a lot of keys O_O

Use to own more but traded for some buds :)

jesus, there goes the tf2 economy

STOP BEING A DICK AND RAISING THE PRICES

stop trying to buy keys with metal!

dafuq i buy em with then?

Cash or items..I bought a key for 4 ref value so easily when I used some items.

oh......i have some stranges and hats that will help me get keys

Lol all these comments and discussion just to set a price a scrap higher or not ...

I know, people really care about that scrap

Especially when "that scrap" accumulates to a one ref increase in price

Please note: Prices listed on this page are only a suggestion. Prices are managed through community vote and may not always be accurate.

Go to your backpack and scroll down.

"Prices are managed through community vote and may not always be accurate."

This is a lie since mods accept based on proof, and not on votes.

Yes, i know.

http://imgur.com/OoKmWTD

easy, under 15 minutes.

inb4 downvotes

You showed that a key was sold for 4.33 :)

So you proved me right and you downvote?

I believe he's talking about downvotes on his own comment.

yup, your range is totally accurate

Yes, he bought fast, seeing that there are 2 key suggestions rising the prices, both at their climax, knowing that one must get accepted, per usual. Then the next day, another suggestion get put up and raising the price even more, thus selling the key for profit. Let's stop making the price go up, let it become stable, and barter around that price. Just because people are bartering around 4.11-4.33 ref does not mean the price should rise to 4.33 ref. The economics is not acting properly.

aww, he's mad

I'm just showing that the person you sold to, most likely, sees these two price suggestions for keys, knowing that they would get accepted, as this happens almost every single day, and then selling it for profit.

do something about it instead of whining.

I'm not whining, and I can't do anything about it as I mean nothing to the people who have tons of keys. If you would suggest to me as what I might be able to do, then please respond with an idea, I'd love to hear it.

Make a counter-suggestion? Join the keyrev group?

The counter-suggestion won't get accepted, as like most that try to bring down the price or try to make it AT LEAST stable. And as for the keyrev group, I'll have to look into that, as I don't know what it is, but I most likely will be of no help to them. Thanks for the suggestions anyway.

then you obviously have no other choice except to wait until it crashes. WHining won't do anything.

Fuck you.

You own like 500 keys, and a suggestion was accepted yesterday.

Stop fucking up the market even more.

It gives you the exact number of how many he owns right at the top? Is there really any reason to state he has "like 500 keys" when it clearly states he has 439 keys?

baloo, you've also been raising key prices while having hundreds of your own.

what do you plan on doing with those?

unboxing?

no?

oh, you're hoarding them because you've noticed the constant increase in price?

AND you see no shame in making your own suggestions to speed up the process of screwing everyone else over completely?

I've been hoarding keys way before key prices rose.

Give a trader some metal on expensive items = Not really into it

Give a trader some keys on expensive items = No problem

You're an idiot who can't keep fact straight as well. The most keys I've ever had in my backpack is 48. I currently only have 6 and they are all event keys. I have only suggested on keys once and the suggestion passed with a positive score. If you want to say something then say it with correct facts.

A plea to the admins: Please listen to the vote count. Backpack.tf is a microcosm of the entire TF2 economy. If the majority of people here do not think a price rise is in order, then please respect that. The current demand for keys is pathetic; organic buyers have completely shied away from the market. The only people buying these overpriced keys are people looking to entrench themselves in the inflation. They do not care about overpaying since they know that, in a week's time, their overpay will become underpay. If you ask almost any common trader, they'll tell you that they believe that key prices are exorbitant. Why are we letting the minority, those who are obsessively hoarding keys and flipping them for profit, set and decide the price of keys? It is reflected in the votes that the majority of players/traders are already refusing to pay the prices suggested and certainly don't support any rise in price. Please consider who this website is really for: the everyday trader, or the key monger.

i like cats

<3 your videos and <3 your comment

purple, is it really you? ;_;

I'm so glad that someone would actually take the time to type out such an accurate comment, and I'm amazed that it would be someone whom I already looked up to before hand

Speech increased to 100.

i have a suggestion

keys go back to 2.55-2.66

my proof?

ask anybody in the economy that doesnt just hoard keys for profit and they will all tell you that the key prices are just stupid

good proof.

if you accept this ppl are going to sell it for 4,44

dont you get it? thats how trading works, sellers try to make a profit

I already buy for 4.55 :)

well that wont be a problem to buy for

Exactly! and BackPack.tf sees this a Evidence, not profit. Thats why keys go up.

And this, is the reason why I stopped accepting keys in trades, or even buying them. No matter what, I don't care if its a lowball or a highball, keys are just THAT unstable. It's quite ridiculous on seeing key suggestions every single day, I'm getting sick of it.

Unstable? Metal is unstable, not the keys.

Crap, forgot that i mixed up the two somehow, sorry. ^^";

That's better :)

1. Someone sees price at Backpack.tf at 2.66 ref.

2. Outpost sellers buy them all at 2.66 ref

3. Outpost sellers post trades of 2.77 ref and successfully sell

4. Backpack.tf records it as evidence and raises suggested price to 2.77

5. Outpost sellers sells at 2.88

6. Rinse and Repeat

And its also funny how, most people who are making key raise suggestions, have 400+ keys... People like you are just gunna destroy the TF 2 economy. The more Keys go up. The harder it is to get them with ref. thus, More idling. And before you know it. we're back to square one again.

Then those idlers rage quit, delete all their metal, and a huge crash occurs :)

No idler is that stupid haha, they would just cash out. or (Like a normal idler does) just buy more idle accounts. the rich are gunna get richer. and the poor are gunna get poorer. :P

This guy owns 400+ of course he wants keys to be worth more

The Tf2 economy is going to be a pile of crap on Gaben's front door soon....

i agree. the tf2 economy is just ridiculous

the prices on keys are just bloody ridiculous... it will probably never stop rising.... i think that keys should just be kept at a fixed price. I dont think that the website tf2finance should be in charge of the judging of prices for key. like one day they can just change it to anything they like and then we'll have some people who agree with itand say that the website is always right and stuff like that....I mean the whole point of backpack.tf is made by the community for the community and not listen to other websites who *controls* the prices of keys. At the rate, the prices of keys will probably be at 5 ref + by maybe 3/4 of the year. I really dont think that prices of keys should increase. it should just stay at a fixed price, where it isn't too expensive and isn't too cheap either.

FOR THE COMMUNITY

- by a member of the community

I put one up for 4.33 and i got 5 friend requests almost instantly, within a minute i mean :\

So probs 4.44-4.55 is the best price atm

Pretty lazy attempt actually. Downvote