Suggestion: Mann Co. Supply Crate Key at 5.22–5.33 ref

Price Suggestion

~57.22 ref

1214 votes up

1730 votes down

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Comments

Messed up the range. Sorry about that...

I'm bumping up the price to match the trend of keys. Note, that this is the main trend of keys, not the complete range of which keys are sold for in refined metal

Successful sellers at 5.22 Refined:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11000441 (25 Keys in stock)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10979949 (Out of stock)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10927671 (Out of stock)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10467730 (Out of stock, TONS of adds)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10993097 (Apparently, 1 guy bought all 25 Keys from him. :O)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10901914 (Out of Stock)

Successful sellers at 5.33 Refined

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10509652 (A lot of adds)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10834947 (Out of stock)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10828278 (Out of stock)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10852754 (Out of stock)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10965444 (One add, not being bumped)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10593914 (Some adds, Out of stock)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10689252 (One keys in stock, all the rest sold)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10697291 (Multiple Adds)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10761840 (Out of Stock, Adds)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10983732 (Sold)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10633044 (Out of stock, Adds)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10923897 (Some adds)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10701188 (5-6 Adds)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10793659 (A lot of adds)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10825890 (Sold out)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10931432 (So many adds!)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10563438 (3 Keys for 16 Refined at 5.33 Refined each)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10532790 (Many adds)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10697291 (1 Key, Sold)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10996078 (Sold out)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10752544 (None in Stock)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10774957 (Out of stock)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10991309 (Says he has 16 Keys, only 8 in Backpack, also unbumped)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10797979 (Out of Stock, 2 Adds)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10314598 (2 Keys left, some adds)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10865348 (Sold 5, Out of Stock)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10987545 (Offer of 5.22 Refined, 1 Add for 5.33 Refined)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10538562 (Sold)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10986269 (Sold 2)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10986047 (Sold)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10985937 (5.33 each, offer of 10.44 Refined)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10894679 (Out of Stock, some adds)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10984028 (Wants to sell some, unbumped)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10754222 (Sold 13, Out of Stock)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10866577 (3 Adds)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10740808 (2 Adds)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10943385 (Out of Stock)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10637534 (Offer to buy them for 5.22 Refined each)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10959802 (Somebody Bookmarked, some sells)

Out of 20+ pages, I didn't see a single person selling for 5 Refined, or 5.11 Refined. They were very few of 5.22 Refined, and the majority of the sells were at 5.33 Refined. Some sells were occurring at 5.44 Refined but very few. Also, a lot of troll sellers.

But just because sellers are selling at 5.22 Refined 5.33 Refined, or even a little more than that, can they still be bought at lower? Let's see...

Buying for 5 Refined:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/6718712 (5 Ref, No adds)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8616539 (1 Add a month ago, Not a single one since)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10728392 (5 Refined, no adds in a week)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10831426 (No adds at 5 Refined)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9002010 (2 Months, 9 Keys bought apparently)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10521295 (No adds)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10972211 (1 Add)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10822430 (2 Adds)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10655538 (No Adds)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10830409 (No Adds)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10822046 (No Adds)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10903538 (No Adds)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10995456 (No Adds)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10968239 (NA)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10241323 (1 Add 3 Weeks ago)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10997312

Buyers at 5.11 Refined:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10761861 (1 Week, 1 Add)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10832181 (No adds)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10623009 (1 Add)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10626285 (2 Adds)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10848130

Virtually nobody seems to be able buy keys at 5 Refined. Some sells at 5.11 Refined, but the people selling those keys seem to only have 1-2 Keys. There seems to not be a steady stream of buys at 5 Refined or 5.11 Refined.

How about some willing buyers at 5.22 Refined or higher?

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10993697

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10995406 (11 Refined for 2 Keys. 0.o)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10955082 (5.22 Refined)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10974841

Anyways, there is absolutely no trend of 5 Refined sellers or successful buyers. Shouldn't be in the range.

5.11 Refined also seems a bit rare. Most of them are people quick-selling 1-2 Keys. Literally every single 5.11 Refined is a quick-sell or a complete outlier of somebody selling for what they aren't worth.

5.22 Refined seems to be getting into the trend of sells. A good chunk of sells occur here.

5.33 Refined is where most sells occur. They seem to sell fairly easily, and looking at sells, this is where the majority of sells are occurring at.

5.44 Refined is pushing it. There are a few sells, which is scary, but they seem to be sold to people who are absolutely desperate for keys.

I know keys are a touchy subject. Mods don't want to deal with it, but I also believe that people shouldn't get sharked of their keys. The key price right now of 5 Refined - 5.22 Refined isn't right, supported by my proof. I believe 5.22 Refined - 5.33 Refined is a more correct price.

To try to stay on topic, if you don't agree with the price range, please support it with counter-proof instead of complaining. I would love to see it(seriously).

Thank you for those of you who actually read all this proof, and an extra thanks for those of you who inspected all the links.

Long, you never cease to amuse me. Your whimsy is boundless!

Comment spam.

You need some more proof of people not able to buy for 5.11 ref to get my upvote

With the 5.22 key buyers, the 2nd link is one of those trades like people buying for 2.33 ref, only 3 links of valid proof

Link 4 of buyers for 5.11 I find is invalid, as there have been 3 adds

Up vote, looks like the doom is inevitable.

Really? Look below.

I mean the rising of the keys. I don't care about it since I don't really deal with currency.

I know, but I repeat, look below. There's a decent amount of counter-proof.

Not enough to stop the inevitable

It wouldn't be the inevitable if people like you actually gave a fuck.

Then start giving a shit about it, and get others to do the same.

Get people to prevent it and stop the apocalypse.

Lots of people quicksell keys, just like anything else. Some want to sell fast, and the easiest way to do that is to lower the price. That you need this explained is Exhibit A in the case against you ever posting again on a key price suggestion.

> I don't understand the process of key selling.

It shows.

> Nor do I want to.

We know.

> It's a defensive sort of addiction, where you want to increase the prices because you are ashamed that you bought something for that much,

I bought keys at 5.33, because I've been selling them at 5.66, which I've been doing because I can't keep them in stock at 5.44. I'd make some screenshots but I'm kind of busy raking in the dough.

> All it is is traders apparently making a profit when it isn't really considered a profit.

Another brilliant insight (see also: my graph)

> Being on the outside looking in lets me know that nothing is really being accomplished with these constant price suggestions.

You being on the outside looking somewhere (not in) makes your comments irrelevant and clueless.

Wow... So defensive...

"Lot's of people 'quicksell' keys."

With the scatterbrained prices of keys as it is, today's "high price" is tomorrow's "quicksell".Like I said earlier, it's impossible for you to know what is the "correct" price in keys.

And you want people banned if they disagree with you? That's rich.

Perhaps you missed the context of the point I made earlier. Your buying keys at that price and selling them for even higher than that is a defensive sort of justification, because you did not even want to haggle on prices, something smart traders would know to do. In essence, you are justifying the key prices because you did not even bother haggling, and you validate your lack of trader savvy by increasing them to an even more bloated price. Very smart of you.

That's all what key reselling is, ladies and gentlemen... people ashamed they bought an item for a bloated amount, and defending their actions by inflating the prices even more. As I have said before, IT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE.

> it's impossible for you to know what is the "correct" price in keys.

When I sell 100 keys at 5.44 in a day, and see 5.22 sales evaporate in seconds, I know 5.22 is not the correct high price. This comes from actually participating in the market I'm claiming to have knowledge about.

I want bp.tf users to benefit from my knowledge, which is why I'm here answering your absurd posts. Why are you here?

> defensive

Go look up what that word means.

> And you want people banned if they disagree with you? That's rich.

No, I want you to stop posting on key prices. There are a hundred other votes right now and I don't comment on most because I don't buy or sell that item. I would have nothing to contribute apart from my vast background knowledge and excellent grasps of math and logic. That's just not enough, and you don't even have that to offer.

> haggling

I haggle all the time. But these are key trades we're talking about. There is 2-3 scrap profit and the price I've posted is the price I've decided is worth my while. The other person needs to put something on the table (items, or huge volume) or else it's not worth contemplating another deal.

If I can sell 100 keys a day at 5.44, why would I waste time dicking about in a negotiation to sell 10 more at 5.33+weapon?

This is all extremely standard when selling keys. Try haggling with anyone, absolutely anyone, selling keys within a rec of bp.tf prices, and see how far you get. Oh wait, that would require buying or selling a key, which you don't do.

> That's all what key reselling is, ladies and gentlemen... <babbling nonsense>

Key reselling is bridging the gap between two groups of people who are in a hurry. One group needs metal fast and one group needs keys fast, and not always at the same time.

These two groups will always exist, whether keys cost 1 ref or 10. I don't care what the price is, but I care whether bp.tf reports it accurately. Do you?

"No, I want you to stop posting on key prices. There are a hundred other votes right now and I don't comment on most because I don't buy or sell that item. I would have nothing to contribute apart from my vast background knowledge and excellent grasps of math and logic. That's just not enough, and you don't even have that to offer."

This pretty much tells me that I have been wasting my time talking to a brick wall. I'm going to be the bigger man and disengage from the conversation. When you get into an elitist tone, like what you're pulling now, it tells me that all you care about is being right and everyone else being wrong.

"you should know something about market conditions when commenting on market conditions". That's elitist, now? That's how low the bar is?

And I care about everyone being right. I start with myself and work outward.

Shut the hell up naknak.

You are one of the greediest traders I've ever encountered, after Long that is. You don't care shit about the community, you care only about your self-gain. I was on your friends list for a long time so I know 100% well your personality and motivations.

Your comments have absolutely no value and the only reason you're defending any key increase is because your (hoarded) backpack value. You have said this same thing straight to my face, too bad I didn't understand to screenshot it at the time.

Lulle I don't even remember your name, so I'm sure we were real tight like you say.

I have 5000 hours played, how about you? Looks like under 10. And I have a friends list full of smart, honest traders who can recognize one of their own. Yet I'm hated by idiots, guess how much this bothers me.

You and your post are utterly full of shit. You are a pretender in every way. You will never belong. You will never be me. Enjoy your life.

I agree with Lulle and Poncho.

In laymen's terms, "get reck'd."

It's OK naknak, I know how it feels to get ignorant traders to hate on you. I posted 15 Links of 5.22 Refined buyers, and I'm starting to get dislikes. xD

backpack.tf logic:

Selling keys for lower than market price: "lel quicksell don't count"

Selling keys for higher than market price: "gud proof +1 upboat"

That's the most ignorant thing I've read in a while.

If you are selling less then market price, it is only a quick-sell if, oh my gaw!, if it sells fast! People selling for 5 Refined are bought instantly.

If the majority of people selling for higher than the market price, but still sell, is it really above the market price?

It's the most ignorant thing you've read in a while, but it's true.

i didn't even bother to read that why?

cuz "Score: -17" it says :D

Hey check this guy out everyone, he doesn't like something (you get trophy for not liking thing)

first second you posted that and -1 already :D

I agree, Key prices are all messed up.

Stop spamming the same sentiments on every key suggestion.

As we see on the link below. its possible at 5 ref. Downvote.

Based on the counter-proof 5 should reman in the range at the very least

Also, here is TF2 Finance as well: http://tf2finance.com/keys/

that defeats your point, its counter-proof because 5.22 should be in the middle of your range around, this doesnt prove that

Actually, I thought I would throw it in there to prove that the average of keys are sold for 5.22 Refined, and are rapidly increasing.

Also, instead of constantly attacking me, I would really appreciate if you would find your proof. Nearly every comment I post, you constantly have something to say that is always designed degrade me.

I'm sorry about that

I realized I was being rude their, I will now opt out of this suggetion

There are Still TONS of people selling for 5 refined. All the keys I've bought and sold are for 5 refined. I think there are still too many 5 refined buyers and sellers to change the price. Stupid key market. People are so greedy. I haven't seen one key sell for 5.22 on any trade servers i have been on. The absolute max is still 5.11 and it should stay there as people are still selling keys for 5 refined. it's not hard to find somebody selling for 5 refined.

It's still plausible to buy at 5 ref especially in trade servers. Personally I forbade people who sell higher then 5 ref to me and have never bought a key more then 5 ref.

I've bought 5 keys today at 5 refined, Without any negotiations.

Still easy to do.

Why don't you get new proof? You are just copying and pasting proof of the previous key suggestion you made which was closed.

"5.44 Refined is pushing it. There are a few sells, which is scary, but they seem to be sold to people who are absolutely desperate for keys."

http://puu.sh/2YKFE.png

You're a legend

thank you, thank you

when i join a server to play the game i do my name Wtb keys for 5 ref bought 5 in 2 days very easily.

downvote

You already posted that, don't spam comments.

its not just comments is proofs.so they need to see it. i would apreciate it if you closed the other 1 in the bottom and not this on cause i want people to actually see it. but ok a spam is a spam. fair

Is this a prank? Hahahahahahahahahahhahaha.... Keys 5.33 ref? man, come one.

Might not mean much because I am a buyer, but...

http://imgur.com/GKWuAVw

Good proof + explanation, upvoted. 5.22-5.33 really is where the sales happen.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10961854 i was buying for 5.33

I got so many adds, I had to close the trade.. i got about 10 different adds, all wanting to sell 2+ keys..

Even though you can prove that people are selling at 5.33. Buyers at 5.33 are being bombarted with adds. Downvoted, to earily

I'm not sure what you are trying to say. If most people are selling for 5.33 Refined and saw you were buying for 5.33 Refined, then they will sell it to you. Simple.

Now, if you were buying for 5.11 Refined or something and were bombarded with adds, I would understand. I'm having a hard time understanding what your point exactly is.

His point, or least what he's trying to say, is that if you buy for 5.33, you're buying too high, as it's above current market value. If you buy a key from someone for 5.33, odds are that person will go behind you, buy another one for 5.11, then resell, making a massive profit.

In the past few days, I've bought 16 keys for 5 ref.

My OP trade: http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10901961

Proof of every key bought: http://i.imgur.com/kqwPkzF.png

http://i.imgur.com/HTM7Jaf.png

http://i.imgur.com/ZCju8tg.png

http://i.imgur.com/I04bW5q.png

http://i.imgur.com/zkYACIo.png

http://i.imgur.com/Xed02B4.png

http://i.imgur.com/M0fJBtW.png

http://i.imgur.com/ucQmdwV.png

http://i.imgur.com/OVVcH1o.png

http://i.imgur.com/HeFgeDu.png

Long: My keys shall blot out the sun!

Us: Then we shall fight in the shade. With counter-proof.

i saw a few in classifieds for 5 ref yesterday, too

if i come across any others, ill screenshot

Id like to say this again, just so that people know, but Its like making change when you sell keys, you only need to actually do it once. No one actually sells a large stream of keys unless their doing it for profit. Most of the 5.11 sellers are just people making change for 1 key because they need the ref

I'm not sure what you're trying to say with that statement.

What Im saying is that when most people sell keys, they need the ref to buy smaller items, craft hats, genuines, other stuff. like how people smelt ref and reclaimied metal everyday

Or maybe they're just one of the nice traders that don't take advantage of other people? Or is that implausible?

Keys can still be bought at 5 ref.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10733878

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10609786

You took the counter-proof I was about to use. But good job, my friend!

5 ref key sales are still possible...

Agreed. Just bought 1.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11042956

Here is some more proof:

Buying for 5.22 Refined:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10596663

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10837747

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10831619

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10827438

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10840997

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10826491

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10841318

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10665788

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10824911

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10816995

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10596663

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10837747

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10820754

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10685146

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9820264

Also, this website and suggestion is to support the average, not what could or should be. What I mean is that although you are able to convince some people to sell lower than 5.22 Refined - 5.33 Refined, most trades still occur in that range.

I see duplicated links, 4th to last and 2nd to last

Thanks for the catch

Proof seems valid, however if I was making the suggestion I'd make it 5.11-5.33. There is still a bit of business going on at 5.11. Regardless, upvote.

Yea I've purchased 2 at 5.22 - http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10998278

1st link is now even buying for 5.33

> website and suggestion is to support the average, not what could or should be.

Disagree, it's called "suggested price" and not "average price" for a reason.

Craft hats are a perfect example: the average sell price is certainly (a little) lower than 1.33, thanks to all the 1.11-1.22 quickbuyers, but the suggested price is 1.33 across the board thanks to scrap.tf.

16 keys at 5 ref does not justify the price at 5 ref, you need more counter proof than the player who posted. I buy keys at 5,22 and I get no adds, and only at 5.33.

Up vote.

Just sayin' autobump really helps your chances of buying items

http://bazaar.tf/trade/226268

5.15 per key.

I was added in less than 10 minutes. I also had the trade up on Outpost. So Definitely downvote.

You had 2 Trades up on different websites and was able to achieve 2 keys at a 1 scrap difference from my price range, but can not explain the hundreds of keys that I am able to show that were sold at 5.22 Refined - 5.33 Refined, so you down-voted?

Nice one. I'm focusing on the trend and average of which keys are sold, not quick-sellers.

o no!!! i know how to actually trade so you think my trades don't count.

I didn't criticize your ability to execute trades successfully, so there is no reason to do the same to me.

My point is this. You had the ability to achieve keys at 5.22 Refined and 5.11 Refined. However, this is such a small percentage to the overall fact of hundreds of keys being sold at 5.22 - 5.33 Refined that it really is only an outlier instead of the majority of trades.

It's only outlier if only one person provided you with proof of 1 trade, that person was one of "many" people who have provided you with links of keys sold at lower prices means it's no longer 1 trade but many trades.

As an experiment, I wanted to see how hard it was to sell Keys at 5.33 Refined and 5.22 Refined.

I sold my Key at 5.33 Refined in Approximately 36 Minutes.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11006926

I sold my Key for 5.22 Refined in Approximately 3 Minutes.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11008093

Please note that no one said "added" in both of your trades. This is a confirmation that the unbought trades might have truly bought a couple of keys

http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198057101042/inventoryhistory/

First two trades

Sorry, I can't see the links, you have to screenshot them and post it to a public domain

My Widows Vista refuses to prove myself right. Sorry.

While its only 1 link, It helps, well it helps my cause

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11008036[/url]

One key at 4.88 Refined. You've a long way to go to prove wrong all my trades

There's nothing wrong with 1 link of counter proof compared to the 50 other comments you'll soon be getting about #savethekeys

DOWNVOTE, outpost is full of people who buy on servers or wholesale and sell for higher, almost all keys sold at the high end have been bought for lower, a key having a history pretty much proves this.The only reason key price is rising is because for most people like myself, adding a scrap or 2 to the price of a key is nothing...its like asking for an extra rec for a bud...its nothing...the kind of thing dropped in a week. Key:ref price only effects starting traders and those who craft hats to get low craft numbers (easier with higher hat:key ratio).

I like many, trade for items alot over a key...so if people swap for metal, adding an extra few scrap to change that for a key is no problem...all the people i know who buy at 5.33 (i am one of them) do so as they dont really loose out...

Basically, it is the RATE and which ref:key increases that is bad for the market, not the fact that the key price is high, its irrelavant...MODS need to take some action and impose rules like price must remain for at least a week or 2, and votes for change must be considered for at least a week.

PERSONALLY, I couldn't care less if keys were 10 ref. it wouldn't effect me in the slightest as like many traders, I don't hold metal.

This is a no brainer. I almost never sell my keys for metal, just did so because i was a bit low. As soon as i put a trade up for 5.33 ref 5 people added me on outpost in less than a freaking minute.

It's time for keys to start going down, trends don't last forever.

[url]http://trade.tf/price/5021/6[/url]

Almost!

So you didn't see one person selling for 5 refined ?

Let me just put the ones that were selling for 5 ref in the last 14 hours (I wanted to do 24 hours but got tired of copy-pasting, just visit the source link and browse through the pages).

Source:

http://www.trade.tf/deals/search/Sell/All/Mann%20Co.%20Supply%20Crate%20Key/all/1

Sellers at 5 ref:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11010961

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11010683

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11009352

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11008175

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11007972

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11007561

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11007030

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11006016

http://www.trade.tf/trade/517151629

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10992033

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10992032

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10991840

http://www.trade.tf/trade/517263659

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10990955

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10990383

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10989378

Cheap sellers (often by overpaying items but you could always by the item for metal first and resell it to the guy for his key(s)):

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11009318 (1.50 ref)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11007792 (4.77 ref)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11005973 (4 ref)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11004207 (2.16 ref)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10999550 (3.66 ref)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10996253 (3 ref)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10994292 (4.11 ref)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10994061 (5 ref)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10992087 (2.16 ref)

The thing is that every trade selling keys for 5 ref get sold almost instantly, and most of them are selling less than 5 at a time, if these trades fail to sell within 10 minutes, I would've downvoted the suggestion.

The point I was making is that there are plenty of trades at 5 ref, regardless of how fast they sell.

Quicksellers and the second part apart from one, all of them are outliers.

So are you saying people buying at 5.33 are also quickbuyers? or is it only sellers that can be quicksellers?

No, 5.33 is the price of a key now - people ,unlike you , realize that and are settling for it.

Alright, I'm not going to debate with you endlessly, my point was to show that the poster proof was partial since it didn't show any trades at 5 ref, I proved it with examples. I'm not interested in flame wars, thank you very much.

Here are the points I'm going to make of why you're wrong.

1). First of all, I'm not going to explain myself with quick-buyers. The majority of people are buying for 5.22 Refined - 5.33 Refined, so if most are buying for that range, everybody is quick-buying? lol

2). In total, you proved people selling a total of 24 Keys at 5 Refined. I have nearly 500 Keys being sold 5.22 - 5.33 Refined

3). All of those trades are sold instantly

4). All of them except 2 are people selling only 1-2 Keys.

Quick-sells shouldn't be used as proof. Especially in such a small amount of keys actually being traded

You didn't find any sales at 5 ref right, I showed them to you. End of story.

No, it's not the end of the story. All those trades are quick-sells, and they shouldn't be used as reliable or legitimate proof. Unless you are trying to say that few people sell for 5 Refined, and they're all quick-sells, and that's all you have to say? What's your point?

Your point 4 is invalid

Doopliss, since you don't want it to be the end of the story, I'm going to conclude by showing your contradictions.

First let me quote you:

"Out of 20+ pages, I didn't see a single person selling for 5 Refined, or 5.11 Refined."

Now that I've shown actual 5 ref trades to you, you're telling me they're all quicksells and cannot be used for proof.

So on the one hand you pretend to look for 5 ref sales and cannot find them, and on the other hand when someone points them to you, you don't want to consider them.

To me this behavior looks contradictory and biased.

That's why I said "end of story" because I saw no point in continuing a discussion where everyone stated his points. I was just contributing an element you couldn't (or didn't want to) find, I don't want to argue endlessly. You don't like my proof, just ignore it and move on, it doesn't matter either way to me.

Can we call it end of story now ? We both gave our sides and I've better things to do. Just ignore me, thanks.

Every single one of those links on Outpost are trades that last literally 2-3 minutes long. Also, the majority of those traders only had 1-2 Keys to sell, and some didn't even bother writing in "Add me". They're all, undoubtedly, quick sellers who needed metal.

You seem to classify people who need metal as quicksellers, so the vast majority of people are quicksellers since they sell keys to get metal.

Now there's another category of 10, 20 or 50, whatever the number, who sell keys while they don't need metal, so they can just buy more of them cheap and resell them high.

What value should be reflected by backpack.tf?

Next you mention those people weren't selling many keys.

If one seller sells 1000 keys at 10 ref to 3 different people, should the price now be 10 ref for everybody since the volume is so high?

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10520319

Good Job, you found a protest trade

They never actualy sell btw.

http://imgur.com/MtNgAlf

I dunno I got one at this price yesterday.

Bought 4 keys at 5 refined each

http://imgur.com/fWjcgvq

http://imgur.com/HvWh51v

http://imgur.com/zCEoRgG

http://imgur.com/K2wyGuc

Small amount of backup because I can't be doing this for long.

Just a couple outpost trades:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10701188 -5.33, 5 adds at least within the last day

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11013144 - 5.33, INSTANTLY sold out within minutes of opening the trade. 2 people posted "added"

Scrap.tf has had NO keys at all recently. http://scrap.tf/keys

tf2 key finance says 5.11-5.22, screw your 5.33 stuff

well even in the last couple of suggestions, there were a considerable amount of 5.33 sellers. why should finance alone dictate the price

because dem key prices 2 crazy dawg. dey need 2 b controlled lyk dem schedule II drugs.

dem people dat sell dem keys are muy loco :P

here's a more important question: why should it just be governed by outpost (not one item in this proof is from a source other than outpost)? tf2finance is being poo-poo'ed all of a sudden because they added RAWR trade servers where more sane prices are still available for keys and thus it shows prices that don't always support suggestion ranges.

for example, the current tf2finance price is 5.22 supporting a 5.11-5.33 range.

Um... dude... tf2finance is not considered valued proof anymore... where have you been?

sarcasm i hope - tf2finance added 4 (four, just four) new trade servers and lo and behold the key prices nudged down a bit.

If you're batman, then when did you rob the joker of his plans?

Sorry, I've had issues with the Joker sneaking into the Batcave just to hijack various accounts and announce his plans. I've told Robin to stop giving the location online.

Man! I was his number 1 blog follower!!!

Okay, I'll be sure to let him know, maybe he'll leave me alone

Stay on topic

Sorry, didn't know i wasn't allowed to joke around.. (No I'm not being sarcastic)

Hey guys and gals,

I recently got into buying and selling keys, and Dooplis actually used one of my trades for selling at 5.22. I buy at 5.11 and its VERY difficult to get sellers, but once i stock on keys, i sell em within 15 minutes.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10897087 (Buying)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10927671 (selling, shown by Dooplis)

Unfortunately the market will push the price of Keys up, it is inevitable if we measure Keys using metal. Due to more players, and more idlers, there is more metal circulating in the economy, therefore lowering the value of metal, and thus what seems like an increase in the price of Keys. The suggested range is accurate but I wonder how long it will hold with the growth rate of the tf2 economy.

I will attempt to buy and sell for 5.22 and 5.33 respectively, but with time, buying at 5.22 will also be hard. There are already many people buying at 5.22 as shown by Dooplis, and for a relative competitive advantage the buying price will raise to 5.33 then 5.44 and so on.

Backpack tf is simply a reference. It does NOT determine the price. The buyers determine the price. If buyers do not cooperate at 5.33, then price will drop to 5.22, then 5.11 and so on. But, as long as the number of buyers and sellers increase, or more users start trading, the price will inflate.

Thanks

I bought some for 5.11 today by putting up a trade on outpost. Downvote.

So what happened to waiting a week between price votes and no more incremental changes?

Mods?

Go look at the rules for key suggestions and read the carefully. The rules are:

- Do NOT suggest a new price range for keys until 3 days have past since the last increase,

- ***EXCEPT*** if a major event has occurred that has changed to price radically.

- ***OR*** if you do not agree with the last change, you may suggest to revert back with supporting proof & arguments.

- Do NOT suggest a new price range for keys that is only a .5 scrap difference from the last suggestion. We do not need this constant spamming of .5 scrap changes.

- ***EXCEPT*** if the price has been stable for ~7 days and only a small change is needed.

It's 3 days, not a week. A week refers to the half scrap change.

It's nice to see people providing counterproof instead of beaching. Anyway:

http://i.imgur.com/uR9txFm.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/6O6c51U.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/8lp23AQ.jpg

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11015889

Oh and Long failed at 5-5.33 with 3x the proof as you. Really think this one will pass?

4 links of people quick-selling keys for 5 Refined each. Oh noez. How will this one ever have a chance to pass?

"4 links"

look at other counter

Explain what Hatch's suggestion has to do with mine?

While you're doing that, could you also please explain to me why it is extremely easy to sell keys for 5.22 - 5.33 Refined, and why most seem to buy at that range? Thank you

1. its long's suggestion that i mentioned

2. he's experienced and he failed 3 times, which 3x as much as proof as you. AND he left 5-5.11 ref in the range.

3. so? 5 ref is still possible

4. people sell at that price because they aren't greedy

1. Long's suggestion was over a week ago. You're saying nothing has changed from a week ago and now?

2. Degrading me doesn't work very well. Also, he only posted two suggestions, and I highly doubt that he has "3x more proof than me. "

3. They are rarely available at 5 Refined compared to the amount of people selling at more. Also, I think this is literally my 10th time saying this, but they are sold instantly.

4. Thanks for proving the fact they are all quick-sells.

Once again, can you please explain to me why it is so easy to sell keys for 5.22 - 5.33 Refined, and why most seem to buy at that range? Thank you

Just noticed Hatch's suggestion.

His is more accurate. Finance is currently at 5.23, so your range is off.

I destroyed all your points and logic, so then you decided that without reason that all my cold hard proof is wrong, and somebody else is right? Please respond to my questions I have for you, please. :)

1. Ok, so what if it was 1 week ago? He still had 3x as much proof as you. go check.

2. "rarely available" keys will ALWAYS be sold sold extremely fast at the low end of the range. it just very POSSIBLE as the counter has proven for 5-5.11

3. # of keys sold>how fast they sell

4. Finance is at ~5.22. Other suggestion is at 5.11-5.33, which matches the amount finance reports.

I answered all those statements already. As for # of keys sold > how fast they sell is really only supporting me, as the amount of 5.22 Refined - 5.33 Refined sellers crushes the amount sold for lower.

But let's just say you're right. Let's try this one more time...

Can you please explain to me why it is so easy to sell keys for 5.22 - 5.33 Refined, and why most seem to buy at that range?

Because people are greedy.

And with suggestions eliminating a "x" from the range, you need to prove that you cannot get item "y" for "x" amount anymore, which the counter has proven to still be possible. Ok i need to go. Good debate.

It's that time of the week again, key suggestion! As much as we all hate it, keys are expensive and 5-5.22 is NOT an accurate range, so I'm going to go ahead and [LET SOMEBODY ELSE] suggest a new range.

To begin with I think that I'll begin with my trades. I've been buying keys for 5.22 and selling for 5.33/5.44 for the past week and here are the trades I have made:

http://gyazo.com/99c1382cd277f1984f2e4e64e4dda729 4 sold for 21.77

http://gyazo.com/07913c20279c075946ef6708630d8fc6

http://gyazo.com/fb07b0f2c5c509238c9cab7c6554b6b6 9 sold for 49

http://gyazo.com/6b38932000e0fb8ab9db0741984275cb 5.22 each

http://gyazo.com/a1d0a615ca33570d00791be784ec9d3f for 5.33

http://gyazo.com/c8402773b60945aa58fcdc6bd7b73c18 Bought for 5.22

http://gyazo.com/34ebd43d22a39da071fd7125b1a229e5

http://gyazo.com/16f5ade3eab186a1d58917e2e1894c8f

http://gyazo.com/736b87914f314add494d617575d35882

http://gyazo.com/86b5ed6c40619f19f3431b13129073fe

http://gyazo.com/7fd5494cb83c19227c9c220049f64e95

http://gyazo.com/39eb0cbbd1d251ba5ac4cdef0c9c55ad

http://gyazo.com/81aa92d28356746c247100044a83f372

#TooLazyToCountHowMuchISoldOrBoughtFor

http://gyazo.com/4654b628bb014b4cfb354f77d661a93f

http://gyazo.com/28237a2eb6bc8d60c3b3651ab5350ffe

http://gyazo.com/f22440776dc2cda27bf8cb93fd6c88e2

http://gyazo.com/77f730db127313d3dfd851e9e6e6cf12

http://gyazo.com/144f9f087e4d3bc140dfeba455543e7e

http://gyazo.com/9f06320b7bb2489a6b0718df60a47d64

http://gyazo.com/1628f8aa27de141b7e2a13a10939431d

http://gyazo.com/b30bd7347d83d2ec20b1cfe845d354d7

http://gyazo.com/f2876d7570c7274a3b99c6a52a553629

http://gyazo.com/87038a6dc4fd50e87fa045922dae9a53

http://gyazo.com/6d65cc7ca5d5546e2cadacbe9e4bc213

http://gyazo.com/3f9e874b6de248de849b65b55b8acdaf

http://gyazo.com/1ccfa460baa5e8f633c2217a1af78ab0

http://gyazo.com/ea36790c186807136ef3a63e1988925a

http://gyazo.com/f27a1d7172d6030bfa3bd82317528eac

Notes: Yes, I was writing my own key suggestion but I got a bit lazy, so I'm glad this suggestion is here to take my proof. It's really boring crawling through Outpost.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10998313

I was added in let me think 5 min.

5 bought for 5 ref each.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10859567

http://puu.sh/2XVUQ.png

http://puu.sh/2XVWc.png

http://puu.sh/2XVWI.png

http://puu.sh/2XVX3.png

4 Links against.. ? Yes , that's going to work.

I never said that. No need to be aggressive.

And you probably didn't even check them, since they are 1 link and 4 screenshots.

Every time I buy a key, I always get them for about 5.11 on trade servers.

Can't say it's proof without screen shots or anything, but still seems silly to increase again. The price stagnated from what I saw.

On another note, this guy seems like he shouldn't be making suggestions on keys.

I'd like to provide some counter-proof other than what I have in my memory, but it seems everybody is determined to bump up key prices.

The median price of keys, as stated by trade.tf, is 5.11 ref. 5.11 is not included in your range. Even though it's only a scrap difference, it makes a big difference if a person sells lots of keys. If someone sold 1 key at your price, they would only get 0.00-0.22 profit. Lets say they get 1 scrap profit per key with this suggestion. Not a lot for people who sell 1-2 keys. But if a person sells 18 keys, they get 18 scrap/6 rec/2ref profit compared to the current price.

The demand for keys is not high at the moment because of the RoboCrate keys and there are way too many keys going around for them to rise from 4.77-5.11 to 5.22-5.33 in 19 days. Even though there is a lot of metal, keys should not rise that much. The last suggestion got accepted with a score of 39.73%, so I doubt this will pass. Broadening the range would certainly be a better way to go. The problem with keys is that people will always buy for the low end price, and sell for the high end price, therefore always raising the price. Don't pull the "It's because of idling" card, the idea of idling for metal was not invented 2 weeks ago, it has been around for a long time. If the price keeps going up, it will crash. The whole market will collapse because keys are one of the most used currencies available.

trade.tf calculates using systems of equations that include item trades.

For example, if 10 buds are sold at 23 keys, then 1 is sold at 22 keys and 5 ref, that counts as a 5 ref key trade, even though no ref was exchanged for a key. This has an anchoring effect on prices because people are much more likely to round off key prices in large item trades. I know I do this, because if there's already a key of profit built into the price it's kind of petty to complain about a rec.

tf2finance is much more relevant for our purposes.

Actually your example is incorrect, price of items are inferred from less expensive ones. So in the case of a key, if it gets traded for 3 craft hats and 1 ref, it'll be counted as 5 ref since you could perfectly buy 3 craft hats at 1.33 ref, and buy the key after that.

The FAQ is pretty explicit about including all trades in calculation of a price. Both your example and mine would contribute to a 5ref reporting.

The anchoring effect is real and acknowledged in the group forums. I don't think it's necessarily wrong for them to do it this way, but it makes the result much less useful as key-ref suggestion evidence, because item trades are much, much more common than pure trades (source: trade.tf's creator).

So you're explaining to me how my website works ? Interesting.

Btw, I'm the creator of trade.tf

It's true all trades participate in the price, however your example contributes to bud prices. But in the FAQ I also stated I was giving simplified examples to make the math accessible and also linked to a full math article for the hardcore stuff.

OK, you win, I'm wrong about the price composition.

But I'm right about the end result, which is that "key price in ref" doesn't track key prices in ref very closely. Right now it's at 5.11, yet a sale at 5.22 will get 10 adds in the first minute. The number is not very useful as a guide for what you should be paying (or asking) for a key, in metal.

P.S.: the FAQ describes determining prices from a system of equations using simple algebra, while the linked paper describes resconstructing a waveform from intermittent samples. It may be useful to describe how you got from one to the other, even in general terms. Also expound on whether the 5.11 key price is market inefficiency (unexploited arbitrage opportunity) or a weakness in the model.

I think both trade.tf and tf2finance.com are relevant, they represent different behaviors. I'm not sure why you would exclude one behavior in favor of another, but I'm not here to preach so I'll leave it at that.

So you are saying the results are accurate, and the differences are wholly attributable to market inefficiencies?

The logical conclusion is that I should be buying keys with craft hats, which flies in the face of intuition when most people want overpay in items.

The waveform in the paper is just a visual application of the maths, if you don't see the generality of the model, it would take to long for me to give you a Ph.D course. In general terms, it's already there in the examples.

Don't talk down to me son. Your examples have you solving n unknowns in >n equations, simple algebra. How one gets from this to "expensive items are priced in terms of cheap ones and never the reverse" is a mystery to me.

I'm asking for details because your model is producing results that contradict obvious market realities. That could be because your model is slow to react, it could be because the key-item market is actually much different from the key-metal market and lacks arbitrageurs, it could be because you've made bad assumptions.

Here's a direct question: how do you define |Ω| in your application of this model?

tf2finance has a simple and transparent model, with apparent strengths and weaknesses. trade.tf doesn't even disclose sample sizes, and the methodology is too opaque to guess what assumptions have been made or errors may creep in.

For example, if you see someone quickbuy 4 craft hats for 1.11 ref, and later someone else sells 4 craft hats for a key, does that suggest a key is worth 4.44 ref? It's perfectly logical and clearly wrong, all at once.

People overpay in items for unusuals, but I don't do unusuals.

Yes actually buying keys with items is a lot more efficient in terms of profits for small stuff. Actually in the good deals you'll find plenty of such situations. And outside of website trading it happens even more from what I observe

It just takes time obviously and effort, so if your backpack is already worth a lot, chances that it's a waste of your time and you're more likely to use metal to save time. But for small traders which represent the majority, they seem to be willing to spend the time to do it. Plus a lot of new traders just want a particular item, they don't have metal, so they buy a key in the store, and trade it for the item often without really caring for the change/price difference.

I use medians, so in my case it's the majority behavior that gets represented and there's a pyramid effect in terms of wealth: few extremely rich, quite some rich, a lot of middle class, then a huge starter class. That's why the key price got stuck at 5 ref for long on my website, even to the point where it raised some eyebrows and making some people question whether there was a ceiling sort of limit, I attribute this to new traders preferring the simplicity of whole numbers and not caring for a scrap difference.

So yeah my system is a different way of looking at measuring prices, and there are different behaviors being captured here.

But let's carry on this discussion on trade.tf forums if you have more questions or just want to discuss more (you can add me too if you wish to), because I think we're getting off topic and I don't want to abuse the topic of this particular suggestion (which is proof and counter-proof) or get a warning from the mods.

Look I was not talking you down, sorry you felt that way, and like I said in another message, let's take this to trade.tf forums or in chat messages because I don't want to abuse backpack.tf.

ok, I wrote that before seeing your first reply and maybe it was too defensive. I will take you up on this offer.

Keys aren't rising that fast.

No one knows

They're only rising about 1 scrap per suggestion. And by 2014, no one will give a shit about keys anymore. Like me.

Bought at least 3 or 4 keys at 5 ref yesterday, downvote.

this is pointless, the key price rising will never stop, its NOT the ref dropping anymore but the cummunity itself. When a new key price is set everyone starts selling them at +1-2 scrap more. and after a week or so the price is set to that and so on and so on. if (when) this price is accepted, everyone will start selling at 5,44-5,55. Its not a guess, its a fact.

Ha ha, cummunity. Anyways your point is valid and I completely agree with you. Greed is one of our most visible "qualities".

Yes, I agree too, I hate the key inflation. Sure, make people with 100 keys richer, still if they don't do anything!

The fact of the matter isn't that sellers are selling for more, it's because buyers are willing to match the sellers price. That's what is driving up the price, not backpack.tf

But its a cycle you see, keys have been going up so consistently, that people know that the highend of this range will become the low end in a week due to how fast it rises. While you can buy for lower, Most people will just try to buy at the low end of bp.tf range due to its popularity

i was on a trade server yesterday i bought 5 for 5 ref each way too fast

maybe the keys are dropping. maybe

Your proof is brilliant

sold 6 @ 5.22 today

I just bought 4 keys at 5.11, but whatever

Proof would help

but its still possible .... http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11021406

http://i.imgur.com/TvJJW7E.jpg - bought 4 for 5ref/each in minutes (2days ago), there are succesful buyers at 5, but they close their trades after business.

The price of keys aren't going up at all. It's only when a new suggestion is made - then keys go up... it's as if you are intentionally trying to raise key price

Ugh, if you can dismiss all 5.11 trades or below as quicksells, then we can say all sales at 5.33 and above are quickbuyers. A scrap or two off isn't sharking, and I hate the logic behind what is deemed a "quicksell" and what isn't (basically anything under the suggested range).

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11023442 - 5.33 sold 3

For what it's worth.

I don't know if 5-5.11 should be excluded

how did steam market prices drop so much the past couple of days. looks like key supply is going to keep going down and prices probably up

People trying to sell regular keys in order to purchase robokeys, I'd assume.

they don't seem that much lower. i just tested a sale at the standard rate i'm happy selling them for for steam wallet funds: 1.95 for me so $2.23 on the market. it sold within a few minutes.

i have seen a few go for $2.07 but they disappear immediately.

Yeah, robokeys sounds right. buddhapest, the keys have been at ~2.40 for a while before recently.

ah - i must have missed that.

Key prices can't go up forever. Every time they get increased, highballers just increase the price on Outpost. Leave the price as it is for more than a week.

Look at the last two suggestions. 11 days in between, and they still rose. They won't simply stop rising because people on here stop making suggestions.

since bp.tf continues insisting on using only outpost as proof - and rewards suggesters with virtual rep and notoriety (attention seekers unite), i am slowly starting to lean to Swag's model at trade.tf

if we're going to lock ourselves into a non-barter world (a barter world is what trading *should* have been), then lets get scientific.

http://trade.tf/price/5021/6

This is greed, plain and simple.

My 17 Keys will be GOLD after this suggestion!

Are you some kind of alchemist sorcerer

Here is some proof. Sorry for the duplicates, as it is hard to not have any with all the sells and buyers:

5.33 Refined - 5.22 Refined(Selling):

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10727590

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10992578 (Offer of 5.33 Refined)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11009927 (10 Adds!)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10783305 (7 Bookmarks, Ridiculous amount of adds)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10774957

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10799791

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10834947

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10593914

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11007892 (Also buying at 5 Refined. Coincidence that he doesn't have any in stock because he is buying for 5 Refined and selling for 5.33 Refined? I think not...)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10530351

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11018138

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11025012

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10714582 (WAS selling at 5.33 Refined. Now at 5.44)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10943385

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10932900 (Was selling at 5.33, appears to have adds at 5.44)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10538562

Buyers at 5.33 Refined - 5.22 Refined

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10685146 (5.33)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10684955 (5.33)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10945821 (5.22)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11007094 (5.22 Buying, 5.44 Selling)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10912159

Other links:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11004073 (Buying at 5.11 Refined? Has 43 Refined in Stock. Selling at 5.33 Refined? None in Stock!)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11024970 (Selling 4 Keys at 5.11 Refined. Sold in less than 10 minutes :O)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11023363 (Unbumped at 5.33 Refined, but a willing buyer at 5.22 Refined)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10744102 (Dude is pretty cool. Willing to allow people to offer in refined metal for keys, and people are almost instantly offering 5.22 Refined)

As for people claiming to have bought keys for 5 Refined - 5.11 Refined, please provide item trading history.

For those who have proof, all I will say is that I can not provide logical arguments for illogical acts. I have provided nearly a hundred Outpost links of people who have successfully sold, in total, hundreds of keys at 5.22 Refined - 5.33 Refined without any effort. Why people sell for less? Beyond me. Unless...

Most people selling for 5 Refined - 5.11 Refined are trades that last literally 2-3 Minutes. It's called a quick-sell, and every single link provided with confirmation are people selling 1-2 Keys at most. Most people who buy lower than 5 Refined - 5.11 Refined easily sell it for more. Don't deny it.

Also, people who continually say people who buy for 5.22 Refined- 5.33 Refined are quick-buyers. Lol. Let's think about it.

If a vast majority of people are supposedly quick-buying keys, then that means keys are in high demand, correct? And if most people are willing to spend more than their supposed market price, is that not the reason why we have these suggestions?

These people quick-selling keys are such a small percentage of the thousands of keys traded every day. There is hardly any proof of successful 5 Refined buyers, and very rarely can somebody snag one for 5.11 Refined. Why? Actually look at my proof of how easy it is to sell for higher.

The truth will set you free.

Also...holy ****. This is the median of which most keys sell for. Can you shark keys for lower? Yes. But please observe the truth *cough* I mean proof. I'm seeing a lot of people saying, "Lol bought key for 5 Refined, le downvote". However, the people saying they bought for 5 Refined mostly have no proof, and if they do, it's such a small percentage that it hardly affects the ultimate price.

For those who have proof, all I will say is that I can not provide logical arguments for illogical acts

the illogical act is assuming all trading happens via outpost

The rare occasions of when I trade in-game, Keys are generally sold at 5.22 Refined - 5.33 Refined. Can you shark somebody and get lower? Absolutely.

My point is that I can't explain why people would quick-sell their keys at 5 Refined when they can easily and arguably sell or quick-sell at a higher price.

it's only rare for you.

because it does happen. often enough that both trade.tf ( http://trade.tf/price/5021/6 - currently at 5.11) and tf2finance ( http://tf2finance.com/keys/ currently at 5.22) agree this suggestion's range (based 100% on outpost) is too high.

your proof is very good, but it's lazy (i don't mean this in a derogatory way) like most proof on bp.tf in that it only takes into account outpost. i think i'm beginning to trust the science behind trade.tf and tf2finance over difficult to track outpost trading patterns.

in addition, i know i know, y'all laugh at warehouse references, but keys are still at 5 ref there and close to overstocked.

we're talking almost 12K keys which represents 2% of the (known) keys in the economy...

Probably because TF2WH is a crappy site with unstable bots.

you may not like it, but keys are going in and out of the warehouse at a very healthy rate every day

And I thought they were just gathering dust there. That does change the situation.

check out this chart - things are a little slow now since the robokeys were released, but prior to that the amount of keys going in and out has been very high and it'll return there soon.

http://tf2wh-charts.chrishowie.com/summary/5021/6/

also i think you're going on about tf2wh the way it was in prior to the major reworking starting in march. the site, imho, has been amazing lately and needs to be considered as viable again.

I boght 41 keys for 5.11 and sold all of them for 5.33 if thast helps you guys!

proof of this would definitely help

i really cant i deleted the trade!:(

how do you delete a trade? you can only mark them done on outpost/bazaar/etc.

also, they're in your inventory history - you could post a few screenshots

And at 5.33ref, that's became hard to buy it. :-/

Here's a key I bought just a few days ago for 5 ref: http://i.imgur.com/dvYcvzV.png

It's fairly easy to run into people selling keys for 5-5.22 on trade servers...

you're about to be told it's an outlier

you're about to be told "so if i sell for 10 refined does that justify a high end of 10 refined"

you're about to be told you sharked someone

but the reality is - outpost ≠ the economy.

Problem is, there are still 5.33 buyers on trade servers. I saw one yesterday and I forgot to save a screenshot.

hatch's is better imo

If you messed up the range, close this and start a new one

another bait and switch. someone puts up a high range that everyone will get up and arms about while someone else puts in the old steady range of +scrap that will go by undetected. the fact is: TRADE.TF LISTS IT AT 5.11 BY AUTOMATICALLY MONITORING THOUSANDS OF TRADES, IT HAS MORE PROOF THAN ANY OF YOU COULD HOPE TO FIND, AND WAS LAST UPDATED TODAY.

I would also give credits to tf2finance.com which reports gaussian average key prices for metal.

If you support trade.tf, go use that. You're obviously in favor of that then here, and you have no proof to back up your claims.

the thing i wanted everyone to take from my comment was that the moderators and major "contributors" of this site are untrustworthy and have twisted the tf2 economy and that there are other options as far as prices go that people can follow. the "proof" shown in this site and what you would have me find is finding the effect of the cause, not vice versa. for instance: find a tree that isn't burned down after a forest fire. if you believe that isn't true, then why is it that after bp became the preferred spreadsheet key prices began steadily rising to what they are today. maybe i explained it poorly or my use of caps-lock was immature, but i simply am trying to right the wrongs this site has committed.

lol there are still 5 ref sellers

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=146821252

found one in my trade server today

I have some counter-proof for this suggestion, though it is the opposite direction of what other people seem to be posting:

http://i.imgur.com/tuDIfNr.png

I commented briefly on the amount of successful 5.44 Refined trades. Although there are a few, it's far away from the trend and median of things. Hopefully it will never reach 5.44 Refined though...

The fact that I downvoted so I can slow the economy down from Exploding. People raise it by a scrap, and so defaq what, its's just a scrap right????....Now look what happened!

You and about 600 other people...

It doesn't matter whether or not this suggestion gets past or not. Backpack.tf simply reports the price, but it doesn't dictate it. This suggestion is suppose to tell you what this item normally sells for in order for people to not get taken advantage of.

Also, you're not using this site correctly.

You don't understand, JUST because you can sell it for ONE more scrap, doesn't mean you have to change the price, just stop trying to ruin the economy. CAn't there be a LEGIT pricing website, but no, players still use this abusive site....

Can't wait for the day that the key market crashes

That will be a fun day...

I think Outpost should be banned of use for price suggestions for many items (especially keys). It's the WORST place for trading. Seriously, just go to a damn trade server, like in the good ol' days.

Bro, you deserve a medal. Outpost is either full of the following

Highballers

"sharks"

Or any other form of a greedy dirt bag

and maybe 1% fair traders

The same is true of trade servers.

This.

And there's always bazaar.tf, but it has severe lack of users problems.

I actually think it's better. Only problem is popularizing it...........

I don't even care if this goes up or down anymore.

Is that bad?

Very. Eventually keys will end up crashing and the entire economy will be sent back to 2009.

Keys were worth 1.33 back then. This will probably because prices of keys became so high that people just decided to go to the mann co store instead

Yes, clearly it had nothing to do with the metal supply and increased demand for keys...

Remember when you could buy pop for a nickel and drink it At the movies for a dime? On the drive you'd be able to fill up your buggy for 5 bucks. Inflation is common in a normal economy and unless you can point to why keys would suddenly drop almost 300% their current value, then I see that happening no sooner than being able to view a movie for $15, buying a soda there for $2 and filling up my car on the way for $75.

Downvote, the range on the other suggestion is a lot more realistic.

I been gone from trading for a couple months why did keys double in price?

I decided to combine all my proof of Buyers/Sellers at 5.33 Refined - 5.22 Refined into one super proof comment. I'm leaving to Sea World, so I will seldom be able to comment to criticism.

Let's do it...:

BUYERS AT 5.33 REFINED - 5.33 REFINED:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10979958

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10849008

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11023581

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10998278

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10982451

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10981387

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11006523

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11037701

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11037627

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11034023

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11004047

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11036127

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10993697

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10995406 (11 Refined for 2 Keys. lol)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10955082

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10974841

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10596663

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10837747

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10831619

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10827438

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10840997

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10826491

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10841318

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10665788

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10824911

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10816995

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10596663

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10837747

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10820754

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10685146

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9820264

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10993359

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10596663

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10895045

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10967043

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11014485

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11021196

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11021950

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10685146 (5.33)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10684955 (5.33)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10945821 (5.22)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11007094 (5.22 Buying, 5.44 Selling)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10912159

SELLERS AT 5.22 REFINED - 5.33 REFINED:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10509652 (A lot of adds)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10834947 (Out of stock)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10828278 (Out of stock)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10852754 (Out of stock)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10965444 (One add, not being bumped)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10593914 (Some adds, Out of stock)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10689252 (One keys in stock, all the rest sold)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10697291 (Multiple Adds)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10761840 (Out of Stock, Adds)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10983732 (Sold)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10633044 (Out of stock, Adds)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10923897 (Some adds)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10701188 (5-6 Adds)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10793659 (A lot of adds)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10825890 (Sold out)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10931432 (So many adds!)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10563438 (3 Keys for 16 Refined at 5.33 Refined each)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10532790 (Many adds)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10697291 (1 Key, Sold)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10996078 (Sold out)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10752544 (None in Stock)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10774957 (Out of stock)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10991309 (Says he has 16 Keys, only 8 in Backpack, also unbumped)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10797979 (Out of Stock, 2 Adds)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10314598 (2 Keys left, some adds)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10865348 (Sold 5, Out of Stock)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10987545 (Offer of 5.22 Refined, 1 Add for 5.33 Refined)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10538562 (Sold)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10986269 (Sold 2)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10986047 (Sold)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10985937 (5.33 each, offer of 10.44 Refined)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10894679 (Out of Stock, some adds)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10984028 (Wants to sell some, unbumped)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10754222 (Sold 13, Out of Stock)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10866577 (3 Adds)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10740808 (2 Adds)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10943385 (Out of Stock)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10637534 (Offer to buy them for 5.22 Refined each)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10959802 (Somebody Bookmarked, some sells)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11000441 (25 Keys in stock)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10979949 (Out of stock)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10927671 (Out of stock)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10467730 (Out of stock, TONS of adds)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10993097 (Apparently, 1 guy bought all 25 Keys from him. :O)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10901914 (Out of Stock)

http://imgur.com/GKWuAVw

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10701188

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11013144

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11023442

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10727590

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10992578 (Offer of 5.33 Refined)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11009927 (10 Adds!)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10783305 (7 Bookmarks, Ridiculous amount of adds)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10774957

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10799791

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10834947

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10593914

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11007892 (Also buying at 5 Refined. Coincidence that he doesn't have any in stock because he is buying for 5 Refined and selling for 5.33 Refined? I think not...)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10530351

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11018138

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11025012

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10714582 (WAS selling at 5.33 Refined. Now at 5.44)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10943385

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10932900 (Was selling at 5.33, appears to have adds at 5.44)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10538562

Thank you to R-Dizzle for all this item history proof:

http://gyazo.com/99c1382cd277f1984f2e4e64e4dda729 4 sold for 21.77

http://gyazo.com/6b38932000e0fb8ab9db0741984275cb 5.22 each

http://gyazo.com/a1d0a615ca33570d00791be784ec9d3f for 5.33

http://gyazo.com/c8402773b60945aa58fcdc6bd7b73c18 Bought for 5.22

http://gyazo.com/34ebd43d22a39da071fd7125b1a229e5

http://gyazo.com/16f5ade3eab186a1d58917e2e1894c8f

http://gyazo.com/736b87914f314add494d617575d35882

http://gyazo.com/86b5ed6c40619f19f3431b13129073fe

http://gyazo.com/7fd5494cb83c19227c9c220049f64e95

http://gyazo.com/39eb0cbbd1d251ba5ac4cdef0c9c55ad

http://gyazo.com/81aa92d28356746c247100044a83f372

http://gyazo.com/4654b628bb014b4cfb354f77d661a93f

http://gyazo.com/28237a2eb6bc8d60c3b3651ab5350ffe

http://gyazo.com/f22440776dc2cda27bf8cb93fd6c88e2

http://gyazo.com/77f730db127313d3dfd851e9e6e6cf12

http://gyazo.com/144f9f087e4d3bc140dfeba455543e7e

http://gyazo.com/9f06320b7bb2489a6b0718df60a47d64

http://gyazo.com/1628f8aa27de141b7e2a13a10939431d

http://gyazo.com/b30bd7347d83d2ec20b1cfe845d354d7

http://gyazo.com/f2876d7570c7274a3b99c6a52a553629

http://gyazo.com/87038a6dc4fd50e87fa045922dae9a53

http://gyazo.com/6d65cc7ca5d5546e2cadacbe9e4bc213

http://gyazo.com/3f9e874b6de248de849b65b55b8acdaf

http://gyazo.com/1ccfa460baa5e8f633c2217a1af78ab0

http://gyazo.com/ea36790c186807136ef3a63e1988925a

http://gyazo.com/f27a1d7172d6030bfa3bd82317528eac

Regardless, I will try to find more proof if I am able to.

while i appreciate r-dizzle's time, he's one trader - a key trader. no idea why that all shouldn't be lumped as one minor data point in the suggestion.

the rest is all still stubbornly outpost.

meanwhile:

tf2finance still at around 5.22 suggesting 5.11-5.33 http://tf2finance.com/keys/

and trade.tf just starting to reach 5.11-5.22: http://trade.tf/price/5021/6

It's lumped as one minor data point? What's your point?

All the rest is all still stubbornly outpost? Tell me how many suggestions are passed with the majority of it being outpost? Nearly all of them.

TF2 Finance still in 5.22 Refined? It's in my range.

Trade.tf reached 5.11-5.22 Refined? Irrelevant.

Due to all the comments you continue posting, please go ahead and actually post proof, observe my proof, and come back with some actual facts then being a butt hurt kid. Thank you.

i'm not arguing that most suggestions are not passed with just proof from outpost. they are. i'm arguing that it's wrong to only use outpost.

if tf2finance is at 5.22 that means trades are happening below 5.22

i think your proof is fine - for outpost traders.

your suggestion will not pass. hatch's will.

You should really read what you just typed. As for now, if you have nothing intelligent to say, which would be everything you have said so far, please do you not come back to this suggestion spewing your allegations and speculations.

perhaps it is you who should re-read it. i'm not attacking you at all. just pointing out these continuous fallacies in outpost only suggestions.

apologies for having an opinion differing from yours.

i also think you're taking these things way too seriously.

Don't be ignorant. All your comments are irrelevant to the trades. As for attacking me, some comments you have made about me that are irrelevant to this suggestion:

1). "and rewards suggesters with virtual rep and notoriety" referring to me

2). "your proof is lazy"

3). "you're taking these things way too seriously"

4). "your suggestion will not pass"

5). "the rest is all stubbornly outpost" referring to all my hours of proof

Constant comments shit talking me. It truly is annoying. Also...

YES!! It is YOUR opinion! I'm dealing with facts! Not opinions! Now please, leave.

yes i see you really do take things way too personally. i made these comments on your suggestion but they are not directed at you but rather at the bp.tf model which could use some sort of refresh.

apologies that you saw my comments as critical or directed at you personally and i shall bother you no more.

Dude calm down. I've gone through every single post on here and of all the people to call out for being rude buddhapest is not it. That and you have been far more rude to people trying to legitimately discuss key prices. Seriously reading some of you posts disgusts me.

Calm down. Verbal warning

they have been selling for that price when keys were at 5 ref range,no need to change the range again,i got a about 5 or 6 trades from selling who wanted to sell me the keys at 5 ref,the 5.33 and 5.22 are overpriced.

stop doing this

COUNTER PROOF:http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10644781 sold 53 keys for that price

-Quicksale

-Everyone can edit their post and insert random numbers into it.

Sold: 234234

so are the people who are buying for 5.33

they just want keys fast,it takes time to buy for 5 ref

Yeah, but my point is, 2.33 sales are also possible, but they're massive quicksales :P

back to my point again that just because some people buy the keys for 5.33 doesnt mean it really is worth 5.33. quit inflating the price

I sure agree the price should go down. I'd like them at 4 ref too, but who am I to do that...

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11043506

Remember, prove 5-5.11 isn't possible anymore.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11044905

Once again, these trades last 1-2 minutes, and they are only selling a single key.

Have you even looked at my proof of 20+ links of 5.22-5.33 Refined, let alone all those sellers? Look at this link selling at 5.22 Refined: http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11000441

25 Keys gone within hours. Why should 2 Links be used as counterproof when I have proof of 25 Keys gone at 5.22 Refined within hours?

2 links? Please, add up the total number of counterproof and tell us the number.

And doesn't matter, 5 ref is still possible.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11066168

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11096443

yep; makes sense. I buy them all at 5.3

and I buy at least 5 a week, if not more.

PLEASE ACCEPT THIS!!!

Don't insult other users.

You might want to be careful with telling an admin to shut up. Just a little bit of advice for you.

Selling keys for 5.33 is too damn easy. Not that I want key price to increase. But I tried selling one for 5.33 (just to check) and got flooded with invites. I don't buy and sell keys, I'm upvoting this because I think this is accurate. Just my opinion. It's still up to everyone. :)

I'll speak on cleverpun's behalf and say that this is a suggestion, and your point is to observe the proof/counter proof and make a vote of your verdict accordingly.

Bitching is unnecessary. Nobody cares.

Actually a lot of people are quitting tf2 because of the issue with trading right now, you can find at least 1 person a day qutting tf2 on tf2r because of this, so yeah tf2 trading is going down and it was the only thing keeping the game fresh and new...

Can someone explain why you would sell a key in this current market? As, to me now trying to think the "trader way", it seems pretty stupid. For arguments sake let's say i sell a key for 5 ref, but the very next day or few hours even its now being sold at 5.11 ref. What was the point of me selling when the very next day i could of made a scrap profit, as now i can't even buy a key with my pitiful 5 ref. I hope i am not talking from my arse and someone would care to explain.

Ref is used to buy almost everything below value of 1 key in this game.

Want to buy hats? Ref.Want to buy Tod tickets? Ref.

People dont invest in refined metals,they use it as currency to buy stuff.

Also,if market market crashes (which will,eventually),keys may drop as low as 2.55-3 ref line.Huge profit when it happens isnt it? It's about playing smart.

Yes, i do understand that i haven't really traded for keys that much i have only recently tried it and already find it to be tedious and annoying.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11058230

Sold him lots for 5.33 each.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11008025

bought 2 at 5.11 in the last day

http://imgur.com/2ySVZwq

Bp.tf is here to document the market. Im a bit sad that keys are rising, but this dirty job has to be done.

What's is the point of this? a lot of people have "the power" of the keys prices, is a fact than this is gonna rise even more. Im sad too, why? because the rich people of TF2 never think in normal players, who try to get a metal and craft weapons every weeks for get a key. Rich people have a backpack with a price of BUDS, but, no, they want even more.

We're a small group of traders. Nothing can be done except to see the market for what it is. People may have backpacks with enormous values, but there's also a flipside to this effect too. Everything that has no monetary value that has a common currency in keys have decreased. I lost value of both my SF. Banner and my G. Bison. Decreasing a commodity-currency is a two way street you know, for key owners and buyers.

This idea is a little stupid, but, we shouldn't buy keys until this price normalizes

Bought two keys from 2 different sellers for 5 refined within 35 min 2 days ago, and several more in recent weeks.

http://i.imgur.com/12JrlIm.png

For my part, I absolutely refuse to spend more than 5.11, and I never spend more than an hour or so before I find all the keys I need.

After posting 'selling keys at 5.33ref' on outpost, I got 2 adds in litterally 10 seconds. Insta-upvote.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11074723 5 ref today

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11067693 5 ref today

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11069105 5 ref today

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11067614 5 ref today

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11066168 5 ref today

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11066076 5 ref today

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11063266 5 ref yesterday

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11061509 5 ref yesterday

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11061445 5 ref yesterday

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11060331 5 ref yesterday

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11058542 5 ref yesterday

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11058125 5 ref yesterday

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11057285 5 ref yesterday sold but the trade is still open

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11056787 4 ref yesterday i guess its the price he bought it a month ago he just dont care to pricecheck.

you see the only open trades are the unsold and you use those as proff to rise the value

i have bought plenty of keys for 5 ref today and yesterday you need to include 5 ref in the range if anything!

DOWNVOTE

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11070038

you guys know what bp.tf should just block keys suggestion and make a flat price,cause if backpack.tf have a price,outpost sell it 1 scrap more,backpack.tf sets that as the price,outpost sells for 1 scrap more than that... DUN RAGE AT ME

Super easy to sell @ 5.33ref, super hard to buy @ 5.22 ref (20 keys vs 1)

I feel that even this suggested price range is already incorrect.

I had a buying 5.22 trade for days.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10950446

Got finally, some from

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10847346

Sold them for 5.44

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11027019

Once I updated my buying trade to 5.33, I got keys.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11060296

I'm now mainly sitting on them. Price needs an update, upvote.

I feel bad for the poor traders who play the game, then later come visit the TF2 Economy to trade for glorious items such as Unusuals and need keys

Random TF2 Trader: Ok. Let's see. To buy a Strange Ambassador to become a badass Spy, I need one Key according to backpack.tf. Last I checked a key is... meh. Around 2.66-3 Ref.

*Goes on TF2 Outpost*

"Omg, What the hell happened to the key price! 5 Refined? This is absolutely insane! My 3 Refined that I worked so hard to get, it can't even buy me one stinking key!"

Reality: Backpack.tf Price = 5.22 Ref for one key.

Rich guys with tons of keys sell them for 5.33.

These are used as proof and boom! Backpack.tf key price goes up to 5.33 Ref.

Repeat process until TF2 Economy crashes like an car crashing into a fire hydrant.

In Conclusion:

I'm debating to devoting my life to getting this key price down. Nobody likes this price inflation. A brave soul needs to step up and suggest a suggestion that LOWERS the Key price.

Same here, all we need is a better pricing websites.....you know, where it's not considered to be monarchy....if we have no rights changing prices THE RIGHT WAY, then let us just say, bye bye tf2 :D

You never know, maybe the people of backpack.tf will start using the Spreadsheet O.O

O>o wut..........

You're welcome to go use the traderempire spreadsheet; they list keys as 5.22 - 5.33 :3

Oh my gawd :O

Didnt think this website could beat the spreadsheets record time of becoming corrupt...

i like how a long time ago pepole were complaining about spreedsheet beeing horable now its this

Plenty of bots selling at 5.44-5.44, and buying at 5.33

we need to be lowering the price, not raising it

Provide counterproof, then

How can people provide proof if everyone follow bp.tf prices ?

if i had enough POINTS i would but its not posable.

2806 votes, over a hundred over a Hatch key suggestion a month ago.

Yup, this is officially the most voted-on suggestion in the history of backpack.tf.

Nearly 3000 votes.

If a key sells for 5.11, it is not considered a quicksell, a quicksell is defined by selling BELOW the backpack.tf price, which is currently 5-5.22 refined metal.