- Forums
-
Pricing
- Community Pricing
- Pricegrid
- Spreadsheet
- Browse Suggestions
- Latest Changes
- Unusual Pricelist
- Browse by Item
- Browse by Effect
- Steam Community Market
- Market Pricelist
-
Trading
- Classifieds
- Classified Listings
- Utilities
- Calculator
- Premium Search
- Statistics
"Might as well update this as well"
>>> Please do not blindvote this; only vote if you actually read the suggestion. <<<
Recently updated the PE BoA. Figured I might as well update the GE one too. Method used is rather controversial, but I feel including both sales gives a more accurate representation.
The sales:
Sale 1:
Sold for GE hazmat ~600*
http://backpack.tf/profiles/76561198006572847?time=1438153200 before
http://backpack.tf/profiles/76561198006572847?time=1438270019 after
*As I was doing the update I found out that this has been used to update the GE hazmat.
Using the other sale from the GE hazmat as 'mini' for the hazmat, so that the values of these suggestions do not influence one another
-> 600 keys
=================================================================================================
Sale 2:
Sold + GE Ten gallon (~71) + GBH TC (~320) for duped scorching TC (~1100)
http://backpack.tf/profiles/76561198134973078?time=1437864978 before
http://backpack.tf/profiles/76561198134973078?time=1437894000 after
Minis sale 2:
GBH TC:
Sold for 320 pure:
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/26444323
http://backpack.tf/profiles/76561198060090660?time=1437375600 before
http://backpack.tf/profiles/76561198060090660?time=1437634800 after
Duped scorching TC:
Sold for golden pan (~1100)
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/26343738
http://backpack.tf/profiles/76561198010845155?time=1436027369 before
http://backpack.tf/profiles/76561198010845155?time=1435820400 after
Despite its listed BO of 750, it sold for an item that is generally considered pure, exceeding this buyout by far. Capping this sale at its BO is unrealistic given what it actually sold for. As I glanced over the Hazmat suggestion, this sale has also been approved to set the BoA value on that suggestion.
=================================================================================================
Reason for including the hazmat sale
I am aware that this is a rather controversial way of valuing a hat, but I believe the hazmat sale is actually a clearer sale than the scorching TC sale, due to it being more complex of nature. If the hazmat hadn't been updated, the current low-end sale of the hazmat could be used as mini for it in this situation. Excluding the high end of that suggestion from the hazmat value I've taken, to avoid the suggestions influencing each others value.
Constructive criticism welcome!
~Foamy :3
I'm sure you can use additional Scorching TC sales to back up your argument.
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/26755279
http://backpack.tf/profiles/76561198069892390?time=1440140400&compare=1440226800
http://backpack.tf/profiles/76561198134973078?time=1439017200&compare=1439103600
http://backpack.tf/profiles/76561198100926757?time=1441954800&compare=1442214000
Definitely backs up the 1100 sale.
Edit:
Both the Hazmat sale and TC sale were used in the GE Hazmat suggestion, so I guess this would just break it?
Thanks :3
The TC sale was a mini on the BoA in the hazmat suggestion, and therefore not unusable.
Since the hazmat suggestion is based on 2 sales, 1 of which depends on the BoA, I have excluded said sale from the hazmat suggestion, and used its other sale as a 'mini' on the hazmat.
Is there a reason you're not applying overpay on sale 1?
his reasoning > because the haz was priced with 2 sales, 1 included the BOA.
so to "mini" the haz,he used the sale that didn't include the BOA.
and he didn't take overpay as it would be double overpay.
and he can't do that,because the BOA sale is crucial for the haz. ie it's the higher end
700 flat is the right thing to do
That's why Im excluding the BoA sale used on the hazmat suggestion from it's range. If the hazmat hadnt been priced, I would have been allowed to use that sale without any problems. I don't see why it would be less accurate now that the hazmat actually has a price.
Since it is a lot less complex than the scorching TC sale, I think this is more accurate to use both sales
we have a problem tho, a hat - the same hat - is valued differently depending on the situation,you cannot do that.
bp.tf has to establish the value
"oh yea it's 600-700,except here where the 700 is invalid,so i'll just use 600 to fix the situation"
also,the hazmat suggestion was accepted,yes ? so that means the mods were happy with the mini on the BOA. i see 0 reason to force a range when you can price it with one sale.
I've seen several occasions in which a value used for a mini is considered 'good enough for a mini', but not necessarily the only possible range on the hat for which a mini was made.
My problem with your argument is that, if the BoA would have been priced earlier the way Im intending to price it now it would have been accepted because there would not be any problems [unless of course, I made any other mistakes. but that aside].
According to what you say now, the hazmats current accepted value would all of a sudden be wrong if that would have happened, even though the sales are exactly the same.
As explained before, Im not intending to 'force a range' on something. Im adding this sale because the high-end sale is a complex sale that, in normal occasions, is to be avoided. Using that as only data point seems inaccurate to me.
Gonna wait for a mod's opinion on this
i wanted to point it out but it would be too bothersome.
yes you are completely right if the hazmat was priced at only 600,you could use it without an issue here,but it's not. it's 600-700 and it's that much because of the BOA.
what if...
life as we know it is an RPG and we are basically all characters in a game <.>
I agree with this, there are 2 sales independent in value for each, doing it this way just makes more sense and makes the suggestion more accurate. Its just like a normal mini but its in a suggestion, I don't see why this should be an issue in cases like this.
I don't think it's an issue on lower tier hats where the values are closer together, or on hats with numerous sales where you're discounting one of a few. Discounting one end of a fairly large range seems iffy.
that's the normal way of doing it. if the sale you are taking out doesn't influence the range,you are good to go
In this case it's because the removed end included would make the sale invalid in this specific situation.
I have taken it into consideration though. Should the hazmats price be regularly usable, it would have been 650*0.9, which is roughly 590, rather close to the 600 Im using here, which limits the 'inbalance' that seems to have been created by removing an end.
Should the hazmats price be regularly usable, it would have been 650*0.9<
exactly i again agree with you
but it's not.
I understand where you're coming from with the fact that once the Haz was priced it arguably changed its price at that very instance. For example hats sometimes sell for values that are only based off the value backpack.tf says (for example the extremely outdated secret football helm worth 100 sold for 50 pure even though the burning one is only 40, it did this because of backpack.tf's arbitrary price based on proof from years ago which thus makes it not really meaning anything but a number now) So with that said the hazmat being priced at 600 - 700 based on the BOA, it did have that number attached to it in a price suggestion... but high tier traders know to look beyond that value and look at sales that made that price suggestion possible. So in that sense high tier hats are evaluated off sales and the fact that it had been priced prior didn't change sales that had happened, so it being priced shouldn't change the fact that this can be priced at 600 - 700 like Foamy says.
why then don't we make up ranges for all high-tier hats that have a single sale ?
burning crones is 2100 with that one sale ? why don't we do 2000-2200,it's there somewhere.
the haz c-a-n-n-o-t be used,and there is no need for it to be used.
and your first remark,the BOA sale is more fresh than the 600 sale :P so it's actually closer to 700 than 600
and if hightier traders look past the value,why do we even bother arguing to use or not use 600 (which shouldn't be used) - when they still won't care.
I appreciate the criticism in general, but that's a comparison that makes no sense. The crones suggestion only had one sale, and here there are two.
Im not making a range for fun here, Im not pulling values outta nowhere. Theyre based on something. I know you dont agree with what Ive based it on, and that's a difference in opinion that wont be changed. We've seen each other's statements, reasoning and logic, but neither of us has changed point of view based on it. Continuing the argument will result in me repeatedly stating my opinion and you repeatedly stating yours. I guess we will have to agree to disagree.
There is probably no ultimate right or wrong here. Ive decided to evaluate the sales as I did. Both 700 flat and 600-700 would be better than the current range based on what it sold for, regardless of whether or not the hazmat has had that update. I personally support 600-700 more than 700 flat for the reasons given, and therefore suggested as such.
The current owner has it listed for trade and has declined several offers around or above 600. Why not just wait for it to sell again?
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/26642495
> it makes no sense because i'm pulling the range out of my ass
> says he understands that 600 is pulled out of thin air
<.>
also teeny
Please stop commenting with the mere purpose to mock me.
i just summed up your comment. did i sum it up wrong ? did i put words in your mouth ? because it's exactly what you are saying .
"Theyre based on something. I know you dont agree with what Ive based it on, and that's a difference in opinion that wont be changed." Yes, you very much summed it up wrong.
you assume you are right tho. i summed you up from my perspective.
i'm pretty sure that the mods (that is polar,he most likely does the more "controversial" suggestions) will accept it,not that it would make anyone right or wrong either.
I don't think the hazmat/BoA sale should be used. No matter what, that sale was used to set a range for the hazmat, so it shouldn't be used for the BoA as well. There's no workaround with that.
The problem I have here (and the reason I've decided to act the way I did) is that the rules act in a contradicting way here. If the other sale was a straightforward sale, I would probably be inclined to just use that here, but since it is a rather complex sale (that I would normally prefer to avoid, as it was an upgrade to a duped, higher tier hat), I would very much prefer to have a more straightforward sale like the hazmat to set a range here.
The contradiction I mentioned above is the following:
If the hazmat hadn't been updated, I could have used it's other sale as a mini for this suggestion, making this range valid. I understand that since the hazmat was in fact updated, I normally should not assume it was not updated for this situation, since the suggestion was accepted and the range has been considered accurate.
However, if this would have been made before the hazmat suggestion, the current value of the hazmat (accepted and considered accurate) would suddenly be considered inaccurate (reason being the same one that would make this invalid). The rules here make the followorder in which the suggestions are made matter for what is considered accurate and what isnt. Because of this, Id say either the hazmat should be 600 flat and the BoA 700 flat, or both get a range using the other sale on the hat they were exchanged for as the mini, since in my eyes it is weird that this sale would give an additional data point for only one suggestion, being considered more accurate there, but completely ignored for the other suggestion, where I'd say it is also more accurate to use the additional data point, but which would be invalidated.
It may not be exactly conform the rules, and if the suggestion gets closed because of that, I would be fine with it. If mods request it, I will probably resuggest at 700 flat, since I believe that that's still more accurate than its current price (even though I think this would be better). Im not saying the rules are wrong or stupid, I just see this as an extraordinary case, where the rules happen to clash with each other, and I strongly believe that making an exception to the rule for this particular case, where the following two (or actually three) things are the case:
- Two hats with two recent sales, one of them being a sale in which theyre exchanged for each other, and the other two being sales that have a significant difference in value (i.e 600 for hat 1 and 700 for hat 2)
- One of the two hats' only other sale is a fairly complex one, or one that - for any other reason - would be preferably excluded from a suggested range (i.e the upgrade to the duped scorching TC one)
- Besides these main points, there should of course be a good reason to update it. If it was updated 3-4 months ago, Id have left the price the way it is. But the price is a year old here, so I believe an update would be appropriate.